Atanu Dey On India's Development

Twins Separated at Birth?

| 27 Comments

Teh Twins

The Congress Party is an authoritarian institution, modelled on the political structures of the British Empire and colonial India. It is better at transmitting instructions downward than at facilitating accountability upward. It is monolithic. It claims the unique legitimacy of a line of succession going back to Gandhi’s coterie led by Nehru. Its leaders are protected by a nimbus of secularism, pomp, socialism, and, in the case of the Family, infallibility—to be sure, only in certain policy matters, not administrative ones, but the aura is not so selective. The hierarchy of such an institution naturally resists admitting to moral turpitude and sees an educated electorate as a mortal threat. Equally important, the leaders of the party have to be unquestionably loyal to the Family.

Actually, what I wrote above is not original. I was reading Hendrik Hertzberg’s column in the New Yorker about sexual abuse and the Catholic church, and it seemed to me as if the vile Catholic church and the Congress party were twins separated at birth. Here’s the original quote from that article.

The Catholic Church is an authoritarian institution, modelled on the political structures of the Roman Empire and medieval Europe. It is better at transmitting instructions downward than at facilitating accountability upward. It is monolithic. It claims the unique legitimacy of a line of succession going back to the apostolic circle of Jesus Christ. Its leaders are protected by a nimbus of mystery, pomp, holiness, and, in the case of the Pope, infallibility—to be sure, only in certain doctrinal matters, not administrative ones, but the aura is not so selective. The hierarchy of such an institution naturally resists admitting to moral turpitude and sees squalid scandal as a mortal threat. Equally important, the government of the Church is entirely male.

I would have categorized this post as “Humor and Silliness” except it is rather tragic that the Congress party continues to destroy India’s future just like the priests destroyed the lives of the choirboys whom they raped. Unfortunately, the main stream media is silent and indeed complicit in the rape of the country by the Congress. But soon enough there will be hell to pay.

One knows that the pope is the leader of one of the most powerful evil organizations of the world — even if one is not a Dan Brown fan. It’s all connected: the pope, the Catholic church, mafia, Catholicism, Italian, fascism, authoritarianism, the Congress party, its leadership.

  • Neville

    I’ve really enjoyed your blog. I have been a visitor for a while and recently added you on my RSS reader and enjoy reading your view points.

    This is my first comment and I wanted to ask you if you really think that the Catholic Church, the Congress Party, the Mafia and Italians etc etc are all connected??

  • mg

    This makes me really angry:

    Supreme Court declines to interfere with book ban order

    SC upholds ban on book against Islam

    “upholding the ban imposed by the Maharashtra government on a book on Muslims authored by an advocate, claiming that the book brought lesser-known aspects of Islam before the public eye. ”

    Yeah, and that was the basis for banning?

    “The book perpetrates hatred against Muslims, promotes enmity between classes, likelihood of violence, breach of harmony, peace and tranquillity.”

    Well, but one can say the same about Islam – just replace as follows:
    “Islam perpetrates hatred against non-Islamists, promotes enmity between classes, likelihood of violence, breach of harmony, peace and tranquility.”

    Will the courts now ban Islam on that irrefutable basis and the precedent set by this case please?

    Will the courts ban the literature taught in madrassas which are just as likely to perpetrate hatred and also suffer from inaccuracy while it is not clear that this book was inaccurate.

    Essentially the court is saying we don’t have a law and order system that can manage anti-social elements nor do we have a tolerant society (yes, we expect Muslims to be tolerant just as well as Hindus – you can complain about Bal Thackeray being an idiot, no problem) so freedom of speech (probably the most essential basis of free society) goes out the window.

  • mg

    One more clarification. I’m not making the above point with a bias against Islam (I want to focus on the court’s logic only).

    When I say the following, this can be said about many different groups/religions in India and elsewhere:

    Well, but one can say the same about Islam – just replace as follows:
    “Islam perpetrates hatred against non-Islamists, promotes enmity between classes, likelihood of violence, breach of harmony, peace and tranquility.”

    My point is that the logic is twisted – because something is potentially inflammatory that should not be the basis for banning. If a country does not have a sound legal system and a sound law and order system to implement the laws that is about as bad as it can get before complete chaos.

  • Chanakya P

    “But soon enough there will be hell to pay.”
    And we dream on. While your thoughtful posts are immensely likeable, please spare us the false hope that the Congress party will be made to pay for its sins. If anything it seems to be getting worse. However, I do wish I am proved wrong.

  • surya

    Hindu Press International:The Internet Hindus
    Source: http://www.organiser.org
    INDIA, April 4, 2010, (an opinion piece by Shachi Rarikar): For decades the Indian media in English, both inprint and electronic, has been dominated by an elite who by virtue of their education, articulate speech and degrees, scholarships and awards from abroad face little or no competition at home. A handful of such people occupy most of the media space. All news and views are doctored to fit their ideological parameters.

    To the common, average, educated Indian, especially the majority Hindus, this is a frustrating situation. He and his religion has become the object of ridicule and despise in the mass media.

    For the Indian Hindu, there is not way to fight this malicious campaign. Neither are his letters to editors published, nor can his articles match the linguistic skills of the foreign-educated. Even his messages are not displayed during the TV programmes. His responses on a channel’s website are also never published.

    Thus, the internet comes with fresh breath of air, providing a breathing space to the common man. With the advent of blogging, web groups, chat forums, free websites and social networking sites he gets an opportunity to express himself, gives vent to his thoughts which had been deliberately suppressed all these years. As more and more Indians become internet savvy, the web space is being filled with a new generation of Hindu activist

  • surya

    I posted the above web post for your ready reference. The congress is directly linked to vatican. Yes. Churches have openly campaigned for the party across the nation. The likes of Mayavathis can blunt the evengelisation drive. But with almost all western churches focusing on converting hindus the chances are rapidly diminishing to hold the flock together. Thats the reason I was asking about yuvraaj Rahuls religious leanings, if any.So far no info on this. Any one??

  • rishi

    Even if the first paragraph is true, how is it different from any of the other parties in the country.

    Sadly, in our country, we are gripped by the politics of personality, be it the Gandhi’s, Modi, Nitish Kumar, Laloo Prasad or Karunanadhi.

    All of them rule with an autocratic style and brook no dissent on important matters.

    The Congress, is a little more stable as the top level is fixed. That leaves the second level leaders to have more diverse opinions, than in the case of the BJP, where the top level is fluid and if any of the second level leaders reaches the top, he/she will carry out a purge.

  • Sundried Atheist

    Hello Surya

    Rahul was supposedly baptised at the age of five in Rome. However I can’t give you the exact link of where I read this since it was a couple of years back.
    But yes if you look at the religions of the partners that the Gandhi siblings have chosen for themselves then you might get a fair idea about the religious leanings.
    Priyanaka got married to Robert Vadra, a Sindhi convert to Christianity and Rahul’s last know partner was a Veneluelan Catholic lady.
    As to why both siblings would choose Christians as their partners and that too belonging to the same sect as their mother is something that does give us indications towards their religious inclinations.
    Just like most politicians ,who are converts to Christianity, who don’t make their religious affiliations public I doubt that Rahul would be open about his affiliations.

  • surya

    NDTV:- SPANISH based GOSPEL OF CHARITY which supports communism in SPAIN. Indian CEO, PRANOY ROY is the CO-BROTHER-in-law of PARKASH KARAT–Gen Secy of CPI(M). Brinda Karat and Roy’s wives are sisters. Gospel of Charity are also supporting MUSHARREF of PAKISTAN–the reason for bonhomie between MUSHAREFF & ROY.It also controls INDIA TODAY a national weekly.
    IBN7:- 100 percent funded by SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH in USA. It gives 800million Dollars annually to the channel. Indian CEO is Rajdeep Sardesai–an ex cooleague of Pranoy Roy.
    TIMES GROUP;- Includes both print & Electronic –such as TIMES NOW CHANNEL & Times of India & other News papers. owned by BENNET & COLEMAN. World CHRISTIAN COUNCIL does 80% funding and 20% funding is done by an ITALIAN & ENGLISHMAN–who share equally. The ITALION–ROBERTIO MINDO is a close relative of SONIA GANDHI. Has also bought HINDUSTAN TIMES–besides controlling–other news papers of the group.
    STAR TV:- Controlled & funded by an AUSTRALIAN, Robert Murdocch –supported by St Peters pontification Church in MELBOURNE
    THE HINDU:- Recently taken over by JOSUA SOCIETY, BERNE, SWITZERLAND. N RAM the CEO has a SWISS wife.
    STATESMAN & KAIRALI TV:- Controlled & owned by CPI(M).
    INDIAN EXPRESS :- Recently divided into INDIAN EXPRESS (NORTH INDIA) and NEW INDIAN EXPRESS. SOUTH INDIA). The Indian Express is controlled &funded by ACTS cristian Ministeries. The NEW INDIAN EXPRESS is still has an Indian Owner
    ASIAN AGE & DECCAN CHRONICLE:- By SAUDI ARABIAN COMPANY With MJ AKBAR as chief Editor.

  • surya

    Rishi, you have no idea how hinduism is surrounded by Abrahamic religionists.Poaching for the gullible and the weak and poor.Thats one of the reasons I put up with Mayavathi, as for as I know she has not converted so far. Please copy and paste above info on blogs read by deshis.All above media go after her…

    Sundried Atheist, Yuvraaj Rahul frequents south american missions in Delhi per some report..Or is he celibate? catholic priests are also..

  • Sundried Atheist

    Surya can you provide some link to the information that you have posted above. I know that it is not always possible to get public acess to such information as many of these dealings are essentialy clandestine. However it would be great if you could give me a link so that I could use it as cannon fodder when confronted with the so called “secular’ people of India.

  • Surya

    sundried atheist,
    i received it a couple of years ago as a mass e mail from friends…i have no doubts about the authenticity of the info..beacuse from a different source i received similar one an year ago..regarding congress being propped up by church i saw it on youtube..Brother Anil Kumar’s billboards are seen in Andhra and he is the son in law of recently died former andhra CM Y samuel rajasekhara reddy..i shall try to get the citation if I can…

  • rishi

    Surya,

    Religion has nothing to do with governing style, economic decisions or the good of the country.

    Mayawathi, in fact proves my point. She is more autocratic than others and her economic decisions till date are the same socialist ones of the congress.

  • surya

    Rishi,
    In 2004 the famous Kanchi seer, Jayendra was jailed by Tamil Nadu (google it) establishment to the horror of hundreds of millions of hindus across the world, on a false charge of a murder. Yesterday the loud mouthed British Govt. offered an apology to vaticans pope for its citizens demanding his arrest on charges of shielding child molesters. Religion is the only reason terrorists have driven hindus out of Sri Nagar and even today are demanding independence. Northeast insurgency has religion painted all over it. The Australia backed Baptist terrorists are behind the violence there demanding ‘christs land’. Indian media don’t tell the truth whenever non hindu religions are implicated in any unrest. Mayavathi is cool.Shanti.

  • Sundried Atheist

    Sure Surya, I will be waiting for you to give me that info. I did some research on this topic and I came up with nothing but zilch.

  • Sundried Atheist

    Mayawathi, in fact proves my point. She is more autocratic than others and her economic decisions till date are the same socialist ones of the congress.

    Are you saying that mayawati is not influenced by religion? In that case I invite you to see the hundreds of Buddha statues that have been errected by her Govt. in the past one year of governace.

  • surya

    Hindu girl forced to convert, held in Pakistani madrassa

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/wordpress/?p=9579

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/04/pakistan-hindu-girl-abducted-forced-to-convert-to-islam.html

    which indian media have reported this heinous crime? MMS and Sonia have forgotten about the hindus longtime ago. Dumb indians elect congress over and over again…

  • rishi

    Are you saying that mayawati is not influenced by religion? In that case I invite you to see the hundreds of Buddha statues that have been errected by her Govt. in the past one year of governace.

    Mayawati has put many more statues of herself and Kanshi Ram. My guess is that she is more influenced by herself than anything else.

    What I am saying is that irrespective of religion, almost all chief ministers are autocratic in functioning and irrespective of party affiliation, a majority are socilaist in thinking.

  • rishi

    In 2004 the famous Kanchi seer, Jayendra was jailed by Tamil Nadu (google it) establishment to the horror of hundreds of millions of hindus across the world, on a false charge of a murder.

    Policing methods need improvement in our country. Currently it is very much in the hands of the investigating officer and hence the political party in charge. But don’t just look at one case. That is not evidence. Look at a large number of cases to build evidence for your theory.

    Yesterday the loud mouthed British Govt. offered an apology to vaticans pope for its citizens demanding his arrest on charges of shielding child molesters.

    I am sure that apologies were given to the Kanchi seer also. Apologies mean very little nowadays.

    Religion is the only reason terrorists have driven hindus out of Sri Nagar and even today are demanding independence.

    The reason is Pakistan.

    Northeast insurgency has religion painted all over it. The Australia backed Baptist terrorists are behind the violence there demanding ‘christs land’.

    I have little information. Somebody else might answer better.

    Indian media don’t tell the truth whenever non hindu religions are implicated in any unrest.

    This may be true for some english channels, but there are hindi channels that put across the hindu point of view, prominent among them being Aaj tak. Also, even if there is no channel telling the truth, this is the internet age. Start a blog, write the truth, open up the comments and see if what you say stands up to scrutiny.

    Surya,
    We mow come to the end of a long post. I have replied to about five unsubstantiated comments. Next time, however, before rattling out unsubstantiated comments like this, it would be very nice to see some proof.

  • Sundried Atheist

    Mayawati has put many more statues of herself and Kanshi Ram. My guess is that she is more influenced by herself than anything else.

    What I am saying is that irrespective of religion, almost all chief ministers are autocratic in functioning and irrespective of party affiliation, a majority are socilaist in thinking.

    What are you taling about. You can’t be autocratic and socialist at the same time. Autocracy and socialism are mutually exclusive ideologies.
    As for your claim about Indian CM,s not being religiously motivated, you can check uot on what YSR did in Andhra and how his son in law sucessfully converted villages after villages by using Govt. machinery. Not satisfied by reaping souls this man made sure that all traces of a village’s past were removed by having the temple razed to the ground.

    I am sure that apologies were given to the Kanchi seer also. Apologies mean very little nowadays.

    You are sure but not certain, nor can you provide any evidence for the same.
    rest assured no appologies were made and even if an apology was made it was never mentioned any where in the media. Hindus don’t matter since they don’t organise themselves and go around shouting on the streets “bloody murder” when any of their gurus are acussed, falsely or rightly.

    The reason is Pakistan.

    What is the ideology behind the which the Pakistani terrorists are operating. Its Islam.
    Do you think that Pakistan would have been sponsoring terrorism if it had been a Buddhist or a Hindu country?
    I belive no, it would not. Islam makes it quite clear through its texts that it wishes to be the only dominant religion in this world and Pakistan is merely forwarding the agenda set by Mohomet about 1400 years back.
    Plus Pakistan is not the only country that is involved in exporting Islamic terrorism. You have cases of Islamic terrorism all around the world. That includes Indonesia, Malaysia, Europe, Russia, you name the country and you will have islamic terrorism over there. I think it would be foolhardy to assume that Pakistan is involved in exporting terror all around the world.

    I have little information. Somebody else might answer better.

    ’tis true Rishi, all the insurgencies operating in Naga hills, Chittagong, etc are funded and fuelled by Southern Baptist Churches.
    The NE terrorists don’t make prentensions as to where they get their incentive to break away from India.

    This may be true for some english channels, but there are hindi channels that put across the hindu point of view, prominent among them being Aaj tak. Also, even if there is no channel telling the truth, this is the internet age. Start a blog, write the truth, open up the comments and see if what you say stands up to scrutiny.

    And what percentage of Indias’ populace reads blogs, very few. Majority of Indians get their news and information from the Electronic and Print media. As for the Hindi and regional news channels, they are controlled by the same people who control the English Media.

    Surya,
    We mow come to the end of a long post. I have replied to about five unsubstantiated comments. Next time, however, before rattling out unsubstantiated comments like this, it would be very nice to see some proof.

    How about you provide some proof. You have said next to nothing in your posts besides making assumptions and showing your pitiful ignorace by saying that you either know nothing about the issue or that someone else can respond to what Surya said.

  • rishi

    What are you taling about. You can’t be autocratic and socialist at the same time. Autocracy and socialism are mutually exclusive ideologies.

    What I said was autocratic functioning and socialist thinking. Let me explain with an example. About the Rs 2 per kg rice scheme. The Chief Minister decided one day that the scheme would be carried out, and his orders were carried out. This is autocratic functioning, where the decision is made at the top with no chance for questioning. The thinking behind the scheme, however is socialist. It (supposedly) benefits the poor and therefore it is good. Any reader of this blog will

    As for your claim about Indian CM,s not being religiously motivated, you can check uot on what YSR did in Andhra and how his son in law sucessfully converted villages after villages by using Govt. machinery. Not satisfied by reaping souls this man made sure that all traces of a village’s past were removed by having the temple razed to the ground.

    Please read what I said. I said that irrespective of religion Chief Ministers …… So your comment is irrelevant.

    What is the ideology behind the which the Pakistani terrorists are operating. Its Islam.
    Do you think that Pakistan would have been sponsoring terrorism if it had been a Buddhist or a Hindu country?
    I belive no, it would not. Islam makes it quite clear through its texts that it wishes to be the only dominant religion in this world and Pakistan is merely forwarding the agenda set by Mohomet about 1400 years back.
    Plus Pakistan is not the only country that is involved in exporting Islamic terrorism. You have cases of Islamic terrorism all around the world. That includes Indonesia, Malaysia, Europe, Russia, you name the country and you will have islamic terrorism over there. I think it would be foolhardy to assume that Pakistan is involved in exporting terror all around the world.

    Pakistan is anti-India, not anti-Hindu. It is even against the 150 million Muslims in India. Even the people who migrated to Pakistan in 1947 are looked down upon, they are called Kaffirs etc.

    There are non Islamic terrorists also. In our own country a prime example would be Maoists and Naxals.

    tis true Rishi, all the insurgencies operating in Naga hills, Chittagong, etc are funded and fuelled by Southern Baptist Churches.
    The NE terrorists don’t make prentensions as to where they get their incentive to break away from India.

    Bold statements like these require evidence. So lets have it.

    And what percentage of Indias’ populace reads blogs, very few. Majority of Indians get their news and information from the Electronic and Print media. As for the Hindi and regional news channels, they are controlled by the same people who control the English Media.

    If you see carefully, Aaj Tak has a slight pro right stance. And it is the largest hindi news channel.

    How about you provide some proof. You have said next to nothing in your posts besides making assumptions and showing your pitiful ignorace by saying that you either know nothing about the issue or that someone else can respond to what Surya said.

    It is better to admit that you do not know something than to spout off nonsense.

  • Surya

    Rishi,

    ‘rattling?’ Excuse me?

  • Sundried Atheist

    @Rishi

    What I said was autocratic functioning and socialist thinking. Let me explain with an example. About the Rs 2 per kg rice scheme. The Chief Minister decided one day that the scheme would be carried out, and his orders were carried out. This is autocratic functioning, where the decision is made at the top with no chance for questioning. The thinking behind the scheme, however is socialist. It (supposedly) benefits the poor and therefore it is good. Any reader of this blog will

    Your comments represent the piancle of confusion. Tell me something can you be a Capitalistic Maxist, or a liberal ‘born again Chistian” or a “Jihadi Buddhist” etc. Not in my opinion, since all these ideologies are mutually exclusive and not inclusive of each other.
    I am not sure about your eating habbits, but if are familiar with continental cookking than I am sure that you would know that certain liquers and certain wines go with only certain kinds of meats. The same way you can’t be an autocratic and a socialist at the same time. I am giving this analogy since it is the simplest and easiest to grasp.

    You can’t think socialist and function in an autocratic way. Socialism is the philosphy which rebels against autocracy and an autocratic form of governance and in its extreme forms it ridicules all of forms of governace.Your statement is meaningless in this light. If at all, the example the example that you have given, might be at best compared to those “maharajas” who gave free food and clothing to their subjects inoder to buy their alleigence for himself and his clan inoder to make sure that they don’t rebel against him. Likewise the politicians frame policies that make sure that the masses keep on voting for them.
    They don’t distribute these rice grains for a greater good of the people, so the way they think has nothing to do with Socialism.

    Please read what I said. I said that irrespective of religion Chief Ministers …… So your comment is irrelevant.

    No it is not irrelevant. You claimed that religion has nothing to with the functioning style of Indian leaders and I showed you an example of how religion plays a role in politics. Read my comment again and maybe you will appreciate it.

    Pakistan is anti-India, not anti-Hindu. It is even against the 150 million Muslims in India. Even the people who migrated to Pakistan in 1947 are looked down upon, they are called Kaffirs etc.
    There are non Islamic terrorists also. In our own country a prime example would be Maoists and Naxals.

    Can you tell me why Pakistan is anti-India and not not anti Hindu? Pakistan tends to look at Hindus as former slaves and miserable people who need to be dominated as mentioned in the Koran regarding the disbelievers.
    Pakistanis think of themselves as the real owners of India and its real masters.
    As for your claim that Pakistanis hate Indian Muslims, I have not come across a single statement made by any Pakistani leader or commoner than points in that direction.
    Had Pakistanis been anti-Muslim (Indian) they would not have gone to the rooftops shouting as to how the Indian Muslims are leading a hellish life in India.
    The people who migrated to Pakistan in 1947 are not called Kaffar(the multiple word is kuffar and not kafirs. They are called Mohajirs, or immigrants.
    I am not denying that Maoists and Marxist terrorism does not exist or is not a major problem, but what makes you feel that I am a supporter of Maxims. It is as much screwed up a philosophy as Islam.
    Plus you have not answered what I said about islamic terrorism being a worlwide phenomena and not something limited to the Indian subcontinet. Maybe you again don’t have an answer, is it?

    Bold statements like these require evidence. So lets have it.

    here you go Hun, happy reading

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
    http://www.crusadewatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=880&Itemid=144

    http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?id=1141970933&type=articles

    http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1194586172

    http://hinduworld.tripod.com/views/nscn.html

    http://www.muslim-responses.com/christian_terrorism_

    http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_terrorism_in_northeast_india.htm

    http://francoisgautier1.blogspot.com/2009/02/india-poverty-and-cliches-slumdog.html

    http://francoisgautier.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/sonia%E2%80%99s-presence-in-delhi-is-costing-india-dearly/

    Tell me after you are doing reading, I have many more secular sources which prove my point.

    If you see carefully, Aaj Tak has a slight pro right stance. And it is the largest hindi news channel.

    I was talking about real news, informed and completely unbiased and not news with a right wing bias.

    It is better to admit that you do not know something than to spout off nonsense.
    Maybe then you should not have commented at all, since your knowledge of almost everything you have commented upon is less than rudimentary or shall I say non-existent. May I ask your embolden knowledgeable highness as to why you are commenting at all, after boldly claiming ignorance. Would it not be better than you don’t write at all, but rather watch and learn.
    By the way, what you mean by ‘spout off” ignorance? Did you mean make statements that reek of ignorance or are painfully meaningless and ill-founded?

  • Surya

    Rishi,

    Yet Again, Dr. Mahathir Stirs The Muslim Sentiment
    By Mohammad Asghar

    Dr. Mahathir, the former Prime Minister of Malaysia, was on a visit to Bangladesh recently. He was heading a delegation of 50 businessmen of his country. He created a stir in the minds of the Muslims by asking them not only to take lessons from his long rule over his country, but also to stop trading with the United States in Dollars “as it only strengthens the capabilities of the United States to develop and supply arms to Israel that ‘they then use to kill Muslims.’”

    Bent upon seeing the United States completely crippled, he told his audience in Dhaka: “I’ve asked Arabs to sell oil in other currencies. If we don’t use US dollars, the currency will become useless.” Explaining why he wants Muslims not to trade with America in dollars, Dr. Mahathir, the rising Savior of the Muslim Umma, reasoned: “If the oil and other raw materials possessed by Muslim countries are sold in currencies other than dollars, the dollar would devalue. “If the US is poor it cannot dominate the world.”

  • Surya

    the weblink for above piece

    http://www.islam-facts.com/articles.htm

  • rishi

    Your comments represent the piancle of confusion. Tell me something can you be a Capitalistic Maxist, or a liberal ‘born again Chistian” or a “Jihadi Buddhist” etc. Not in my opinion, since all these ideologies are mutually exclusive and not inclusive of each other.
    I am not sure about your eating habbits, but if are familiar with continental cookking than I am sure that you would know that certain liquers and certain wines go with only certain kinds of meats. The same way you can’t be an autocratic and a socialist at the same time. I am giving this analogy since it is the simplest and easiest to grasp.

    You can’t think socialist and function in an autocratic way. Socialism is the philosphy which rebels against autocracy and an autocratic form of governance and in its extreme forms it ridicules all of forms of governace.Your statement is meaningless in this light. If at all, the example the example that you have given, might be at best compared to those “maharajas” who gave free food and clothing to their subjects inoder to buy their alleigence for himself and his clan inoder to make sure that they don’t rebel against him. Likewise the politicians frame policies that make sure that the masses keep on voting for them.
    They don’t distribute these rice grains for a greater good of the people, so the way they think has nothing to do with Socialism.

    So according to you,
    1. is India (and the states) socialist?

    2. Is the functioning of the various CM’s autocratic?

    No it is not irrelevant. You claimed that religion has nothing to with the functioning style of Indian leaders and I showed you an example of how religion plays a role in politics. Read my comment again and maybe you will appreciate it.

    Ok, let me give you a lesson in logic here. The original statement is “irrespective of religion, almost all chief ministers are autocratic in functioning …” Now if you want to refute the religion part of that statement, it is not enough to show that religion has a role in politics. You have to show that the religion of a CM has an effect on his style of functioning (autocratic or non-autocratic). i.e. you have to show that CM’s of a particular religion are less autocratic than CM’s of another religion.

    On the other hand, if you find that even as the religion of the CM changes the autocratic functioning of the government is substantially same, the first statement is proved.

    So, the statement you made, does not prove or disprove what I said and hence is irrelevant.

    Can you tell me why Pakistan is anti-India and not not anti Hindu? Pakistan tends to look at Hindus as former slaves and miserable people who need to be dominated as mentioned in the Koran regarding the disbelievers.
    Pakistanis think of themselves as the real owners of India and its real masters.
    As for your claim that Pakistanis hate Indian Muslims, I have not come across a single statement made by any Pakistani leader or commoner than points in that direction.
    Had Pakistanis been anti-Muslim (Indian) they would not have gone to the rooftops shouting as to how the Indian Muslims are leading a hellish life in India.
    The people who migrated to Pakistan in 1947 are not called Kaffar(the multiple word is kuffar and not kafirs. They are called Mohajirs, or immigrants.
    I am not denying that Maoists and Marxist terrorism does not exist or is not a major problem, but what makes you feel that I am a supporter of Maxims. It is as much screwed up a philosophy as Islam.
    Plus you have not answered what I said about islamic terrorism being a worlwide phenomena and not something limited to the Indian subcontinet. Maybe you again don’t have an answer, is it?

    You are correct, The term is Mohajir. But the ill treatment that they undergo is there. One still hears stories trickling through of such ill treatment. These are muslims but they are looked down upon because they are from India. Similar immigrants from other countries do not suffer the same fate.

    Also, In the various bomb blasts sponsored by Pakistan, Muslims as well as Hindus have lost lives. During the Kargil war, they were fighting muslims as well as hindus.

    Pakistan, somehow, has defined itself as Anti- India. That is a hangover from partition and needs to change for there to be growth in neighborly relations.

    here you go Hun, happy reading

    That you supplied evidence is good. Now maybe somebody more knowledgeable than me on the subject can evaluate it and tell us the results.

    I was talking about real news, informed and completely unbiased and not news with a right wing bias.

    The original comment was that the Hindi point of view is not expressed by the media. I just pointed out that there are media channels that provide this point of view.

    Maybe then you should not have commented at all, since your knowledge of almost everything you have commented upon is less than rudimentary or shall I say non-existent. May I ask your embolden knowledgeable highness as to why you are commenting at all, after boldly claiming ignorance. Would it not be better than you don’t write at all, but rather watch and learn.
    By the way, what you mean by ’spout off” ignorance? Did you mean make statements that reek of ignorance or are painfully meaningless and ill-founded?

    Actually, I have not made any judgment on the subject. I just replied for completeness, as the original post contained 5 disjointed subjects.

  • Sundried Atheist

    So according to you,
    1. is India (and the states) socialist?

    2. Is the functioning of the various CM’s autocratic?

    Maybe you should pass on my explanation to someone more knowlegale than you. He could then decipher the meaning of my post and help you make an informed desicion.

    Ok, let me give you a lesson in logic here. The original statement is “irrespective of religion, almost all chief ministers are autocratic in functioning …” Now if you want to refute the religion part of that statement, it is not enough to show that religion has a role in politics. You have to show that the religion of a CM has an effect on his style of functioning (autocratic or non-autocratic). i.e. you have to show that CM’s of a particular religion are less autocratic than CM’s of another religion.

    On the other hand, if you find that even as the religion of the CM changes the autocratic functioning of the government is substantially same, the first statement is proved.

    So, the statement you made, does not prove or disprove what I said and hence is irrelevant.

    Go back to your own post and read what you had written. According to you religion does not play any role in the functioning of any state government in India, autocratic or not. It was precisely this fallacy that I was trying to disapprove.

    You are correct, The term is Mohajir. But the ill treatment that they undergo is there. One still hears stories trickling through of such ill treatment. These are muslims but they are looked down upon because they are from India. Similar immigrants from other countries do not suffer the same fate.

    Also, In the various bomb blasts sponsored by Pakistan, Muslims as well as Hindus have lost lives. During the Kargil war, they were fighting muslims as well as hindus.

    Pakistan, somehow, has defined itself as Anti- India. That is a hangover from partition and needs to change for there to be growth in neighborly relations.

    Mohajirs are not the only Muslims who have problems in Pakistan. The Balochis, Seriakhis, Sindhis who are also Muslims also face similar problems in Pakistan.However this is nothing compared to what Hindus and Sikhs have to tolerate in Pakistan. These Hindus and Sikhs living in Pakistan and not indegenous, so how do you explain their being socially crippled./ A non-Muslim in Pakistan can’t be the part of the legislative or the Judiciary. Hindus are not allowed to work in the police of the Army. Just because you don’t wish to accept the truth that Muslims hate Hindus, you will go to lengths to deny the facts.

    Now there Muslims, belonging to minority communities, in other Muslim countries who are given a raw deal. For example the Druze in Lebanon and Syria, Kurds in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Turkey, the marsh Arabs in Iraq, the list is a very long one and you can research the list of atrocities perpetrated on these Muslim minorities in these countries.
    Secondly the muhajirs or immigrants from India are not really a disadvantaged class. They are accepted as Muslims and the strife between them and others is a result of social tensions and not religious differences.
    Finally, are you familiar with the term collateral damage? That is exactly what happens every time an Islamic group strikes in India. Muslims are not the targets, Hindus are. That’s why you don’t see any terrorist strikes in Muslim dominated areas by LET, Hizb Ul Mujahideen etc. Plus the Pakistanis are cannot carry out all these attacks without local intelligence which obviously comes from…. wait let me allow you take a shot a this.

    That you supplied evidence is good. Now maybe somebody more knowledgeable than me on the subject can evaluate it and tell us the results.

    Well if you required someone more knowledgeable than you to read those articles and then make an informed decision, maybe you should not have asked for proof in the first place. Since you don’t have the ability to see evidence and make an informed decision in first place what is the point in asking for proof.

    The original comment was that the Hindi point of view is not expressed by the media. I just pointed out that there are media channels that provide this point of view.

    what is the Hindi point of view? Were you trying to say the Hindu point of view. I that case I stand to disagree. The job of the media is to provide unbiased news and not be megaphones for blocks and religious bodies.

    Actually, I have not made any judgment on the subject. I just replied for completeness, as the original post contained 5 disjointed subjects.
    hmmmm ,/b>