Atanu Dey On India's Development

Jesus Saves and his Followers are Wonderful People

February 10, 2011 by Atanu Dey | 57 Comments

Not only does Jesus save, his followers save as well. Here’s a comment that one of Jesus’s own (whose handle is “Jesus Loves You”) wrote:

Wasn’t Vivekanada a homosexual partner of his guru the guy who used to worship Kali (the blood thirsty Hindoo godess who appears in the nude in most of avatars.

It is really shameful that such people like Vivekanda are the Gurus of Hindoos and it is precisely because of this reason that India is so backward.

Hindooim is a cancer on this earth that needs to be eradicated soon.

Praise Yeshua who only saviour of mankind!

The comment appears here.

Here is the IP information from which the comment was posted:

115.240.30.115
Reliance Communications
New Delhi, 07
India

The most wonderful thing about Jesus’s followers is that they are loving, caring people. Christianity, the ideology of Jesus’s followers, is a loving creed. Here’s Thomas Jefferson’s loving review of Christianity.

There is one notable thing about our Christianity: bad, bloody, merciless, money-grabbing and predatory as it is – in our country particularly, and in all other Christian countries in a somewhat modified degree… Ours is a terrible religion. The fleets of the world could swim in spacious comfort in the innocent blood it has spilt…The gospel history of Jesus consists of fabrications, superstitions and fanaticism… I consider the book of Revelation, the ravings of a maniac…. Due to Christianity, millions of innocent men, women and children have been burnt alive as witches.

Don’t you just feel the love oozing out of Christianity!

Neitzsche had said, “it is not their love for us but their lack of faith that prevents today’s Christians from burning us.”

Jesus’s followers would love you to death — literally — if they could get away with murder.

Newer Comments →
  • http://www.vmohanty.com vimoh

    Ah! That homosexuality thing is straight out of a book called Kali’s Child by an academic called Jeffrey Kripal.

    A most astute rebuttal of the book was done by Swami Tyagananda. You can read it here.

    Sad really.

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  • http://inthearmchair.wordpress.com Armchair Guy

    My theory is that religions that developed in the presence of other, pre-existing religions have slander embedded in their DNA. Christianity and Islam had to compete against Judaism, which was already entrenched. Judaism had to compete against scattered pockets of religion, so didn’t have to develop a policy of abusing other religions. Why didn’t Hinduism and Buddhism develop similar habits? Perhaps because they were somewhat compatible with each other to begin with.

    The interesting thing is that there are “natural” defenses against such abuse in the West. If a sect went around abusing other sects in this way in the West, it would be held in contempt by most of society. But Christian evangelists in India realize there are no consequences to such abuse. So they do this sort of thing with no qualms, even though the same sect might tiptoe around and be polite in the US. I’ve heard that even the bibles distributed in India have inserts gratuitously abusing Hindus.

  • ACommonIndian

    I am an Indian and a Hindu by religion. And when I read about such comments it just saddens me. I do not want to offend anybody here but isn’t monotheism a symbol of narrow mindedness? How can a religion which does not respect the beliefs of other religions/societies teach a follower to respect a fellow human being?
    It has been the basic teachings of Hinduism to respect others and their beliefs or at least show tolerance without getting aggressive or violent. Hinduism has also been a mother religion to religions like Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism in India. And all these religions have prospered and spread in the same country without any conflicts because of these basic values they carry at their roots. We don’t believe in forcefully converting or exploiting someone’s poverty for conversion. Swami Vivekananda believed and preached that like rivers which take their own paths to meet the great ocean in the end, all religions have their own teachings which finally lead us to the ultimate divine. Show respect, be tolerant, be human!

  • http://rexzilla.livejournal.com Rex

    @Armchair Guy – What’s sad is that Hinduism’s inherent tolerance now acts against it. No one calls out these guys for slandering the religion, and those that do get labeled as right-wing Hindutva fanatics.
    I always am met with silence when I point out that nothing in Hinduism talks about killing people who disagree with your beliefs, and neither has anyone tried to use Hindu scripts to justify killing others.

  • http://rexzilla.livejournal.com Rex

    @Atanu – Normally I’d dismiss a comment like that as just a plain troll, but given this is India and the crazy level of proselytization going on here, it’s quite likely this wasn’t simply posted to get a rise out of you.

    Speaking of proselytization – I understand the indignation over the covert conversion tactics being performed in rural areas, but what about the argument that Dalits are converting only to escape caste based discrimination?
    Wouldn’t the problem be better addressed through social reform and aid programs, rather than just complaining about conversion?

  • Julian

    That second quote is from Mark Twain I think not Jefferson (who also had a low opinion of Christianity).

    Christianity is just a more cunning version of Islam, while Islam confined its genocides and atrocities to two continents (Africa and Asia) the religion of “love” carried out its genocides all over the world from North America to Australia.

    Unfortunately many Hindus have a misguided and romantic view of Jesus because of what they hear from their Guru’s or selective reading of the Bible. The genocides of Christianity are a direct result of his teachings and other passages within the Bible.

    The first victims of Christian fanaticism were the Greeks and the Romans. The original Olympics were a Greek religious festival held in honor of Zeus uninterrupted for over 1200 years. They were banned by the Christian emperor Theodosius in 393 CE for being “pagan” along with the Nemean, Isthmian and Pythian games. The Platonic Academy of Athens was shut down by Justinian in 529 for the same reason. Those are just small examples of what Christian swine did in Europe. They were also the first to desecrate the Parthenon because it was in honor of Goddess Athena (similar to the Taliban and the Bamiyan Buddhas).

    Christian Persecutions against the Hellenes

    http://ysee.gr/index-eng.php?type=english&f=lovestories

    The Passion of the Greeks: Christianity and the Rape of the Hellenes by Evaggelos Vallianatos review

    http://www.tcpc.org/review/review.cfm?review_id=201

    Christians and the Classics: War against Reason
    Evaggelos G. Vallianatos

    http://hellenismos.us/public_html/yabbfiles/Attachments/War_against_Reason.pdf

    Christians have the same plans for murder and genocide against Hindus and rest of non Christians even today, they are just more careful to hide their atrocities using media power. Everyone has heard of Muslim terrorism but very few people know about the Christian terrorists like NLFT in Tripura or NSCN in Nagaland (whose official slogan is “Nagaland for Christ”).

  • Julian

    “but what about the argument that Dalits are converting only to escape caste based discrimination?
    Wouldn’t the problem be better addressed through social reform and aid programs, rather than just complaining about conversion?”

    Did you know that caste is as entrenched among Christians as Hindus.

    Christians even practice untouchability, remember the attacks by Vanniyar Christians on “Dalit” Christians a couple of years back in a TN village.

    “Dalit” Christians have been demanding reservations within Christian institutions for a while now but the media suppresses their voice and instead highlights upper caste “reverends” and “fathers” who demand that they be given reservations as Scheduled Castes after converting them with promises of ending discrmination.

    http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2010/s10040140.htm

    So conversion doesn’t end discrimination and in many cases that’s not even the reason for conversion but simple poverty (gifted to us by the British Christian occupiers and their socialist successors in Congress).

    What is also hidden is that many so called tribals and other groups today became backward today due to Muslim and Christian occupation. For example the British Christians would label entire tribes as “criminal castes” and stigmatize them because of their hostility to British occupation.

    The Europeans on the one hand are banning burqas and hijabs but want unchecked missionary activity in India under the guise of “human rights”.

    A ban needs to be enacted on foreign missionaries, all the ill gotten Church lands (many of them temple lands gifted to them by the British) seized and distributed to the landless and reservations enacted for backward Christians within all Christian run institutions after ending any taxpayer support to them. The Catholic Church should also be told to screw off like in China.

  • Julian

    Religion of “love” in action recently in Meghalaya (supressed by most of the Indian media):

    Christians blamed for Garo–Rabha conflict
    http://www.morungexpress.com/frontpage/60943.html

  • Indian

    I expected you to be more mature than this. Normally comments by retards are deleted and the bloggers move on. You didn’t need to make this a ‘Christianity sucks’ article. Not saying Christianity is the greatest religion out there. Every religion has their own issues when their followers become fanatics.

    Peace!

  • Indian

    Oh yeah and judging by the way he spelt ‘hindoo’. He seems to be a firnagi retard.

  • Julian

    “Every religion has their own issues when their followers become fanatics.”

    Yet somehow magically it is only Islam and Christianity which managed to genocide millions for religious reasons.

    Don’t try to play “equal equal” here.

    Shintoists, Hindus or European Pagans didn’t go around massacring other people for following a “false” religion or worshipping “false” Gods. It is the Muslims and Christians who did that and continue to do it because of what their cults teach.

    Hindus didn’t go to Portugal and start a Hindu version of the Inquisition there, it was the Christian Portuguese who invaded Goa and did that. To this day the Catholic Church has failed to apologize for its crimes, instead the Pope came to India on the day of Deepavali and talked about this century being about a “harvest of souls” in Asia. Christians in India have named many colleges and schools after that criminal “Saint” Francis Xavier who wrote letters asking for the Inqusiition to be established in Goa and destroyed Hindu temples (this after a local Hindu raja gave him land to build his Church).

    Hindus on the other hand gave shelter to Syrian Christians (who betrayed them at the first opportunity by siding with the Portuguese), Jews (whose first experience of anti semitism in India came from the Christian invaders), Parsis and now Tibetan Buddhists.

  • Julian

    Religion of “love” in action in Japan:

    Japan finds out about the global pattern of Christian colonialism through use of missionaries and conversions

    In 1596 a Spanish galleon, the San Felipe, was shipwrecked off the coast of Tosa. Hideyoshi ordered the ship and its goods confisca…ted. The angry Spanish captain, wishing to impress or intimidate the Japanese officials, indulged in some boasting how Spain had acquired a great world empire. For proof the captain showed the Japanese officials a map of all the great Spanish dominions.
    His astonished hearers asked how it had been possible for a nation to subjugate so many lands. The Spanish captain boasted that the Japanese would never be able to imitate Spain, simply because they had no Catholic missionaries. He confirmed that all Spanish dominions had been acquired by first sending in missionaries to convert their people, then the Spanish troops to coordinate the final conquest.

    When this conversation was reported Hideyoshi’s anger knew no bounds. His suspicions about the use of missionaries as a first stepping-stone for conquest was confirmed. He recognized this pattern of cunning conquest at work within his own empire. In 1597 both Franciscans and Dominicans came under the imperial ban. Twenty-six priests were rounded up in Nagaski and executed and an order expelling all foreign preachers of Christianity was issued. In 1598 Hideyoshi died, and Catholic exertions were resumed with renewed vigor until Leyasu became ruler of Japan in 1616 and enforced even more sternly his predecessor’s expulsion edict.

    To all intents and purposes Japan became a sealed land, “hermetically” closed to the outside world. It remained sealed about two hundred and fifty years until Commodore Perry, in the middle of the last century, opened the gates of the Land of the Rising Sun in unmistakable Western [Christian] fashion—by pointing against the recluse nation the yawning mouths of heavy naval guns. [3]
    [3] It is strange that America, as late as the beginning of the second half of the last century, was tempted into behaving like the Catholic Church in her dealing with Japan. Suffice to quote the New York Weekly Tribune referring to the Perry mission.
    “In this state of things, going thus into pagan realms, it behooves us [Protestant America] not to lose opportunity of laboring for the spiritual benefit of the benighted Japanese. Let not these misguided men, fighting for their own, perish without the benefit of the clergy.”

    When America sent Perry, and his Black Ships entered Japan’s waters, they used the threat of their fire power to blackmail Japan into opening up for trade again. This time, the trade was enforced and accompanied by Protestant missionaries from the U.S. instead of those from Europe’s Catholic nations.See More

  • http://yayaver.blogspot.com yayaver

    Power of blind faith of Christianity has been diluted due to scientific revolution in the Europe. That is why it is more mature of all countries in treating religion with contempt. And the record of Hinduism is also bad in treating people of lower caste and sub-caste. Every change is best when arise due to internal crisis and all these propaganda will not stand its chance. The time of knowledge economy and society is coming and these old traces of faith based religions will be forced to restructure itself.

  • http://www.iconwebsolutions.info Dinipc

    How dare you criticize Christianity – don’t you know that India is a secular country? Besides, don’t Hindu mothers teach their children that all religions are same?

  • Smith JM

    A better way to interpret all this is like this.

    Emperor Constantine 200 yrs after Jesus took this faith with ruthless imperialism. The Roman Empire wanted some pretext for expanding their empire. 200 yrs is a long time for Jesus to influence Constantine. This is all a strategy of the warrior class to rule with punitive imperalism. You could say Emperor Constantine misused the unknown name of Jesus in 200AD to conquer and colonise. This became a tradition till movements against colonialism were successful.

    If you compare this to what happened in 1970-75. Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. To defeat Soviet Union, Islam was used, which is very similar to what the Romans did. The Romans used Jesus and the new empire used Islam. The empire is different here. Since the world has advanced in science, there is a different technique used , but the motive remains same. So long as people do not understand this, this exploitation will continue. Both these faiths have been tossed with a lot of imperial grandeur , war and invasion. The solution , instead of using faiths for imperial grandeur , conquer the primal “I” within one as Ramana says.

  • Joseph George

    Sad and sorry to see Mr Atanu Dey stooping to such low standards to paint the whole Christian community black, because of something Mr Atanu Dey noticed on the web and investigated down to the IP Address!

    How do we know that it was not one of your own kin who purposefully wrote this, so the great Mr Atanu Dey could blog about this, and perhaps bring yet another scoop to the national consciousness??? I do not think anyone in Delhi does not know how to spell Hindu, but rather writes it as Hindoo. Suspicious activity deliberately targeted to incite communal hatred yet again, in a peace loving country. tsk tsk…

    So now, we have a India, where it is Hindu vs Muslim, Hindu vs Christian, Hindu vs …? Hope Mr Atanu Dey will be finally satisfied when India burns… like Sita’s pyre, and only Hindoos emerge victorious while all their Christian (and any other religion) brothers burn to ashes. Please remember that there are many Christians (and non-Hindus) who are firmly loyal to their country, perhaps more so than Mr Atanu Dey is aware.

    • http://www.deeshaa.org Atanu Dey

      Joseph George,

      I am sorry that I will have to put off replying to your comment. I am very busy for the next couple of days. I therefore beg your indulgence and ask you to please visit this site in a couple of days. I am thankful to the other authors of various comments who have addressed your points very competently. I assure you that I will reply to you in detail and you will not be disappointed. Still, I should caution you that what I have to say is not going to be pleasing to you. I give as good as I get. Reciprocation is the law.

      Atanu

  • Rationalist

    Three Reflections on Islam
    The article provides lot of history details about how Christianity became toothless over period of few hundred years. The same needs to happen to “Religion of Peace”

  • Julian

    “Please remember that there are many Christians (and non-Hindus) who are firmly loyal to their country, perhaps more so than Mr Atanu Dey is aware.”

    Ya that’s exactly why Christians were so prominent in the freedom struggle NOT!

    Your kind were so loyal when you were torturing Hindu women and children during the Goan Inquisition.

    So loyal when you run to EU and US to campaign against Modi or back known Maoist scum like Binayak Sen.

    And who made you the spokesman for “non-Hindus”?

    How about you ask your Christian overlord USA to stop invading and slaughtering Muslims by the millions instead of phony shows of solidarity here against Hindus.

    It wasn’t Hindus who started the Inquistion or run a terrorist campaign currently with the slogan “Nagaland for Christ”.

    “How do we know that it was not one of your own kin who purposefully wrote this, so the great Mr Atanu Dey could blog about this”

    Because dumbass such venomous hate is found within the Bible itself which talks about massacres of “heathens” and “idolators”.

    Christianity’s entire history is filled with hate and genocide, there is no need for non Christians to pretend.

    Why don’t you explain to us why Christians banned the ancient Olympics and attacked the Parthenon for a start?

  • Julian

    Christian “love” in action in Canada:

    Our exposure of the Canadian genocide has simultaneously indicted the social order that gave rise to it. Euro-Canadian Christian society as a whole stands condemned in the dock alongside those persons who ran the Indian residential schools, sterilized and murdered children, spread smallpox, and dug mass graves.

    Despite their best efforts to ignore this fact and contain the whole matter with pseudo “apologies”, the Canadian government and its partner Catholic, Anglican and United churches now face the same kind of historical reckoning that Nazi Germany did after its defeat in 1945: an awakening to their own criminal nature.

    On April 20, 2007, Canada and those churches suffered a fundamental moral defeat in Parliament, when the first cabinet minister in Canadian history publicly acknowledged that untold thousands of children had died in Christian Indian residential schools.

    http://www.hiddenfromhistory.org/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CReISnQDbBE&feature=player_embedded

    Eyewitness to Murder: Irene Favel, survivor of Muscowequan Catholic residential school in Lestock, Saskatchewan, describes seeing a newborn baby thrown alive into a furnace at that school by a priest in 1944.

    Two primary objectives of the Residential Schools system were to remove and isolate children from the influence of their homes, families, traditions and cultures, and to assimilate them into the dominant culture. These objectives were based on the assumption Aboriginal cultures and spiritual beliefs were inferior and unequal. Indeed, some sought, as it was infamously said, “to kill the Indian in the child”. Today, we recognize that this policy of assimilation was wrong, has caused great harm, and has no place in our country.

    One hundred and thirty-two federally-supported schools were located in every province and territory, except Newfoundland, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island. Most schools were operated as “joint ventures” with Anglican, Catholic, Presbyterian or United Churches.

    Almost everyone I interviewed had horror stories of Indian residential schools run by Roman Catholic missionaries and other churches. Through tears they talked of literally being torn away from their families as young children, isolated far away in church-run boarding schools, and subjected to years of emotions, physical and sexual abuse. “I was only six years old when the priests loaded me on a barge and sent me to mission school at Fort Providence,” one of them told me. “I didn’t see my parents for four years.”

    http://www.shannonthunderbird.com/residential_schools.htm

    This is how Christians have shown their “love” throughout history to non Christians.

  • Julian

    Joseph George here is more Christian “love” in action this time in India:

    About 15 years ago, while doing research for my first novel, The Last Kabbalist of Lisbon, I discovered that the Portuguese exported the Inquisition to Goa in the sixteenth century, and that many Indian Hindus were tortured and burnt at the stake for continuing to practice their religion. Muslim Indians were generally murdered right away or made to flee Goan territory.

    I couldn’t use that information for my novel but decided, a few years later, to do more research into that time of fundamentalist religious persecution. I discovered that historians consider the Goa Inquisition the most merciless and cruel ever developed. It was a machinery of death. A large number of Hindus were first converted and then persecuted from 1560 all the way to 1812!

    Over that period of 252 years, any man, woman, or child living in Goa could be arrested and tortured for simply whispering a prayer or keeping a small idol at home. Many Hindus — and some former Jews, as well — languished in special Inquisitional prisons, some for four, five, or six years at a time.

    http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm

    You Christians have named many schools and colleges in India after the criminal “Saint” Francis Xavier who wrote letters asking for the Inquisition to be established and destroyed temples (this after a Hindu raja granted him land to build his Church). The Catholic Church has yet to apologize for its crimes, instead your scumbag Pope came to India on the day of Deepavali and made a statement that this century will be about a “harvest in Asia”. That tells me a lot about your religion and values.

    Christian terrorism is ongoing and rampant in North East India:

    The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura’s indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control.

    Last year, they issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja.

    The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/717775.stm

    Its manifesto is based on the principle of Socialism for economic development and a spiritual outlook – ‘Nagaland for Christ’.

    http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/nagaland/terrorist_outfits/nscn_im.htm

  • Amit

    Joseph George:

    Undoubtedly, there are many ordinary Hindus, Muslims and Christians, who no one has to fear. By “ordinary”, I mean well-meaning, productive citizens that have a “live and let live” attitude towards their neighbors (no matter how different they are), who may just want to celebrate certain religious/cultural rituals, festivals and events.

    However, just as there is a difference between Manu Smriti (the darling of Hinduism bashing, rightly or wrongly) and ordinary Hindus, there is a difference between Christianity/Bible and ordinary Christians. There is also a difference between Islam/Koran and Muslims. Islamophobia is not the same as Muslimphobia. Christianity-phobia is not the same as Christian-phobia.

    Christianity as a complete package is incompatible with the peaceful exchange (live and let live) that a “civilization” embodies, unless you dissect it and keep only its good parts. I contend that ordinary Christians do just that without realizing it. They remember the good parts of the Bible and conveniently and thankfully overlook and forget the bad parts. For example, I assume you do not believe in Luke 19:27 which says “But those enemies of mine who do not want me to be king over them – bring them here and kill them before me”.

    Same thing with Islam and Muslims.

    But, then there are Christians such as the Pope, who are not ordinary Christians. Indeed, they are a force for misery in this world. Imagine a world without the Pope. Perhaps, there will be no protection for pedophiles in churches. Perhaps, there will be more condom distribution in AIDS ravaged Sub-Saharan Africa. Perhaps there will be less justification for colonization and genocide of rest of the world by Europeans.

  • Amit

    Joeseph George,

    Also, in case it was not clear, criticizing Christianity and certain Christians (eg Pope) is not the same as wanting any harm for any Christians, or even for the Pope. Thoughts of violent clashes that you say Atanu Dey wants are perhaps a projection of your own subconscious longings.

  • Indian

    @Atanu

    “Reciprocation is the law”

    Can I ask you the ‘turn the other cheek’? :) )
    I situations like this I would ask WHMGD? (What would Mahatma Gandhi do ?) :) )

  • Anonymous

    Atanu Dey,

    “I am thankful to the other authors of various comments who have addressed your points very competently.”

    The only competence I see from your followers is hatred and a passion to find anti-Christian reports and smear Christians. I could take the same example, and google a list of various atrocities committed by fundamental pseudo-Saffron brigades. But Sir, since I now understand the purpose, and I rest my case.

    Joseph

    PS: Just because someone somewhere in the world did something wrong, and you identify them as “Christian” (just because he has a Christian name? Or is white?) doesn’t mean such acts are condoned by Christian conscience or other Indians who happen to be Christians. Whatever America/Canada/Britain does is Christian, eh? What is historically said about the Pope forcing Hindus in Goa, happened to the ethnic Christians in Kerala too. The so called missionaries destroyed all ethnic churches and literature in Kerala and forced the ethnic Christians to submit to imperial Rome. There are lots of Swamis doing very interesting things in India and all over the world. Should I say all Hindus are like that?? The forces of destruction, once they have tasted blood, do not differentiate! So beware… But I can see some here have already tasted blood, and I do NOT wish to engage any further. Quoting the Bible out of context, is truly a dirty tactic.

  • larissa

    @Julian
    There is a good book about Emperor Julian I just read which is called The Last Pagan by Adrian Murdoch. Had he lived and had he not been killed by in a war with Persians, he would have restored Roman glory and he had the philosophical and intellectual and moral depth to rival Marcus Aurelius. He would have no doubt been one of the greatest Emperors as he was an enlightened Roman, a philosopher and lover of Hellenic culture and a brave general as well…

  • larissa

    @Julian

    Constantine was a thuggish emperor. Julian had a dislike of Christianity perhaps because he was a lover of Greek civilization and Christianity was a “Middle Eastern” semetic phenomenon. But now Europeans have no memory of their Hellenic religions as the Christians destroyed all the non-Christian sects, and in their prejudice Christians dismiss the Hellenic religions as “polytheism” even though Christianity amply borrowed from them in its ceremonies. None of the Semetic religions are really original and many Christian myths are plagiarized from Zoroastrianism as a study of world religions shows (take the idea of saviour and virgin birth and so on). Now Europeans are dissatisfied with Christianity and have no religious alternative as their Greco-Roman religions were destroyed. This is what happens when religion becomes a monolith destroying other religions and fails to appeal to people after the other sects have been done away with. Most West Europeans live in a post-Christian age and they have a problem as the religious void as not been filled. There is no continuity in the older greco-Roman traditions as the Christians wiped it out, however, there is a continuity in Hiduism so Indians can relate to the most ancient wellspring of their religious thinking. Rene Guenon has written how Christianity does not have an esoteric core, and he became a Sufi as the Sufis had plagiarized the Greek, Zoroastrian, Hindu-Buddhist esoteric thinking (while destorying these religions in regions in which they came to power and passing off their insights as belonging to Islam) and he thought Sufism to have an esoteric core which he found lacking in Christianity and found Sufism appealing for this reason. However, the problem is that Sufism for all its non-Islamic borrowed elements is embedded into Islam; hence, the projeny of Sufis are likely to fall to the teachings of mainstream Islamic thinking which is exemplified in Saudi and Pakistan and forget their ‘Sufiness” which is exactly what is happing in places like Kashmir where people have reverted to the true teachings of Islam which is exemplified by societies like Saudi and Pakistan which seek to practice the pure form of Islam purged of its ‘non-Islamic” elements.
    Guenon has written a number of books on Hinduism which are worth reading and he explains what “initiation” means in religion and what an “esoteric’ core in religion is all about. He took Vedanta as the gold standard for metaphysics. Note he was a mathematician who wrote his thesis on calculus so he was no “new age” fluff. I have given the reasons for his becoming a Sufi and if one can overlook this, his insights into religion is amazing…

    @George
    I remember asking my grocer’s wife from Kerela how they became Christians. They seem to believe in a myth that St.Thomas spread Christian teachings. When I told her that they were forcibly converted by force and the St.Thomas story is a myth, she just gave a sheepish grin. Talk about historical amnesia. All converted peoples converted by force have this historical “amnesia” because their old religious connection destroyed, they have nothing but the new religion of converts…The problem happens when many of the converts have no faith in their religion anymore which is what you see in Western Europe, hence, their rushing after fake Gurus and what not to fill in the void…

  • larissa

    above: his insights into religion “are” amazing…

  • chaitanya

    The great irony is that Sri Ramakrishna himself used to have a photo of Jesus in his room, along side the ones of Rama, Krishna, Kali etc. (reference: Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, vol 1).

    What did Sri Ramakrishna teach ?:

    Individual self can merge with Universal Self (God). This is Yoga, union.

    What did Jesus teach ?:

    I and my Father are one. (note the similarity with definition of Yoga).

    So, they both taught the same thing, and the followers are fighting !!

    Following is my rebuttal to the original poster “Jesus loves you”:

    We couldn’t care less if Vivekananda or anyone is a homosexual or a heterosexual or a transgender. All that matters is the **impersonal Truths** that he taught, and whether we can verify and practice those Truths.

    An analogy would be that E=mc-square, the Truth discovered by Einstein is what is important. The Truth doesn’t change with Einstein’s sexual preferences.

    It’s the Truth that is important, not the personality !!

    Stop the personality worship ! Get to the Truths.

  • Julian

    larissa the best non fiction book on Julian is “Julian’s Gods” by Rowland Smith. It’s available here:

    http://apollohelios.110mb.com/Julian/Gods/

    In fiction its the historical fiction novel classic “Julian” by Gore Vidal.

    Also Julian’s and other educated Hellene’s dislike of Christianity was motivated more by the fact that it was a fraud and as well as the disgusting behavior of Christians including shunning the classics, attacking temples and slaughtering each other after accusing the other group of being heretics. It had less to do with the fact that it originated in the Middle East.

    Remember the same applied to the Mithraic Mysteries which probably entered Rome through Persia and were very popular among the military. Julian himself was inducted into them. Christians copied several aspects of their cult from the Mithraic Mysteries.

    In Egypt the worship of Serapis was popular, this God was a result of Greco-Egyptian syncreticism. The Serapium built in his honor was destroyed by a Christian mob led by Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria in 389 and his worship forbidden by the Christian Emperor Theodosius.

    Also one of the greatest polemicists against Christinsanity was the Hellenic Philosopher Porphyry who came from Tyre in modern day Lebanon.

    Here is what Kelsos (Celsus in Latin) says regarding the early Christians targeted demographic groups:

    “Let no one educated, no one wise, no one sensible draw near. For these abilities are thought by us to be evils. But as for anyone ignorant, anyone stupid, anyone uneducated, anyone who is a child, let him come boldly. By the fact that they themselves admit that these people are worthy of their God, they show that they want and are able to convince only the foolish, dishonorable and stupid. and only slaves, women, and little children.

    http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/james/GuidedStudy/4ChapterCelsus.htm”

    Here is an example of Christian mindlessness/ignorance:

    “Clement of Alexandria, an Athenian born in the mid–second century,
    converted to Christianity as a young man. His new religion gave him the
    insolence and stupidity of a barbarian, so he had no trouble insulting Homer himself, saying, in a sense, “Cease your song, Homer. It’s not beautiful anymore. It teaches adultery. We refuse to even listen to fornication.”3

    http://hellenismos.us/public_html/yabbfiles/Attachments/War_against_Reason.pdf”

    I urge everyone here to watch the movie Agora about the female Neoplatonist Philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria and what the Christians did to her when they gained power:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbuEhwselE0

    This gives a glimpse of the Christian genocide of European Pagans that took place for over a thousand years before the last of the Europeans were finally Christianized through force.

    I repeat what the Christians did in Europe they will repeat in India if they were to get the chance. Instead of Hypatia this time they might drag someone like Ammachi through the streets and lynch her.

    Also larissa while the destruction of the Greco-Roman religion by Christians is true, many of the practices and rituals have come down to us because the Hellenes had written records. In modern Greece there has been an ongoing revival of their ancestral religion despite the best efforts of Christian fanatics led by the Orthodox Church to supress it, you can check their website at:

    http://ysee.gr/index-eng.php

  • Julian

    Also check this documentary titled “The Real Olympics” made by PBS about the Ancient Olympics:

    http://vimeo.com/5059505

    The doc contains some mistakes though, women had their own games called the Heraean Games in honor of Hera the wife of Zeus.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraea_Games

    The documentary gives a glimpse of the deeply religious nature of the games. It was that which motivated the Greeks to hold them uninterrupted for nearly 12 centuries. They were held even as Xerxes Persian army was burning Athens, that was how important the games were to the Hellenes.

    Compare that to the modern caricature we call the Olympics, they weren’t held during both world wars and are nothing but a joke when seen from the viewpoint of the followers of the Greek religion.

    Their religious nature was also why the Christians got them banned in 393 CE by their emperor Theodosius along with the other sacred Pythian, Isthmian and Nemean games.

    Christian behavior was so vile that after banning the games they built a Church at the sacred site of Olympia.

    “The workshop of Pheidias was turned into a Basilica and the site was inhabited by a Christian community until the late 6th century.[5]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia,_Greece”

    Pheidias was the great sculptor who sculpted the massive Gold and Ivory icon of Zeus for the Olympics, this murti was considered one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world.

  • Julian

    “Individual self can merge with Universal Self (God). This is Yoga, union.

    What did Jesus teach ?:

    I and my Father are one. (note the similarity with definition of Yoga).”

    Another Hindu who thinks he knows Jesus and Christinsanity better than the Christians themselves.

    Christian mumbo jumbo teaches the doctrine of trinity so the above has nothing to with your cherished ideas.

    If you want to see teachings similar to Vedanta then go read the writings of Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle, Socrates etc instead of seeing them where they don’t exist.

    Here are some lesser known teachings of Jesus:

    In Mark 7:27 he refers to Jews as his children but non Jews as dogs.

    In Luke 14:23 he tells his follower to “Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled”. I don’t think I need to tell you the meaning of “compel”.

    Isn’t it funny how Ramakrishna had a Jesus pic and saw Jesus in dreams. How come he didn’t see any of the Shinto Gods, Zeus, Thor, Odin, or Socrates etc?

    I know why because they weren’t occupying Bharat and terrorising Hindus. If they did that like the Christians and Muslims do, then Hindu “Gurus” will suddenly start having paintings of Socrates or Amaterasu (Shinto Sun Goddess) instead of Jesus in their rooms.

    Set aside for now the mumbo jumbo taught by this or that Guru out to make a quick buck. Read the Bible and the Quran from cover to cover, they are freely available online.

    For comparison here is a sample of what Aristotle taught:

    “It will become clear, in the light of my advanced interpretation, that the Platonic Aristotle, like the Platonic Socrates16 and like Plotinus later on, had a high opinion of the power of philosophy to perfect the human being. He was convinced that (working slowly upon the soul and mind of the ascending philosopher, who has climbed step by step the scala amoris), the true love of wisdom will bring in contact the human and the Divine. What is divine in us, the nous (the intuitive mind, the noetic light shining in the human micro-cosmos), and the Nous (the Intellect of the macro-cosmos), are of the same essence.17 At such privileged moments of noetic contact and enlightenment, it would appear that the energized human intellect acquires both self-knowledge and knowledge of “the Other,” the
    divine Noetic Being. Thus, man becomes beloved to the Supreme God,18 the eternally active Intellect, which moves the cosmos by the irresistible power of its erotic attraction, as if in a rhythmic dance orderly and eternal.19

    In this way, a kind of philosophic apotheosis seems to take place at the end of the long road of Peripatetic dialectic. At this point, logos (discursive reason) must yield to intuitive and superior power of energized human intellect (nous). There, the human being, conceived here as a living, sensible, reasonable, noetic, communal, political, poetic, and potentially divine being, becomes divine actually,
    suddenly, and even self-knowingly. Thus, philosophically perfected, the ideal citizen of the Hellenic polis becomes fully enlightened.20 That is to say, the actualized and active human intellect suddenly grasps, as in a flash of selfawareness, the truth that in its very nature the human being is homoousion, that is, of the same essence or ousia, as Divine Intellect.

    Following along the path suggested by Aristotelian dialectic, we can then see that the eternally energized Divine Intellect and the dialectically perfected (and, thus, noetically transformed) mind of the true philosopher are identified as being essentially the same. So, at the end, they are recognized as closely related beings, as two beloved friends.21 This is the road to enlightenment, which my Platonic
    interpretation of Aristotle’s philosophy will reveal fully in what follows. It may be called properly the Aristotelian via dialectica.22

    In this new light, Aristotle’s philosophy and the Platonic tradition to which it belongs, would appear to be closer to Eastern ways of thinking (especially the Indian), than to the narrowly defined “Western rationality.” By this expression is usually meant the kind of calculative and manipulative ratio, which is in the service
    of utilitas. For it serves utilitarian, technological, and ideological goals, which characterize much of modern and post-modern philosophy in the West under various masks, such as: British “logical analysis,” Baconian “scientific method,” and Marxist “scientific socialism.”23

    Source: Hellenic Philosophy Origin and Character by Christos C. Evangeliou.

  • larissa

    @Julian

    “Also Julian’s and other educated Hellene’s dislike of Christianity was motivated more by the fact that it was a fraud and as well as the disgusting behavior of Christians including shunning the classics, attacking temples and slaughtering each other after accusing the other group of being heretics. It had less to do with the fact that it originated in the Middle East.”

    Yes Julian saw though the Christianity. However, knowledgeable Greeks and Romans did refer to it as “Semitic fairytales”…

    The Byzantine Church destroyed all the other Christian sects, it destroyed all esotericism in Christianity by banning all Christian heretical sects which did not conform to the “one Chruch”. If it had not done so, the Greco-Roman mystery cults would have been a living tradition today. When you become a religious monolith and that monolith begins to have problems as you see with Christianity amongst educated people in the West who are no longer attracted to the Church, a spititual void is created as there are no other living traditions that offer people an alternative apart from the Eastern religions…
    Ananda Coomorawaswamy, Rene Guenon and Julius Evola have written a great deal on Christianity, they are interesting to read as they all had different intellectual leanings, but have something in common as traditionalist authors…

  • larissa

    @Julian

    “Christian behavior was so vile that after banning the games they built a Church at the sacred site of Olympia.”

    Actually even till this day you can can see in Rome a Chruch on top of a Mithraeum which is indeed symbolic. Kind of like how you see mosques built on top of temples such as the Qutub minar which is built on top of over thirty Hindus and Jain temples to mark the “victory” of Islam… Galen, Porphyry and Celsus are interesting to read for their critiques on Christianity…I suppose if the Abrahamisms had not ventured beyond the Mid East deserts, the world would have somehow been better off…It seems the desert cults have in common in that they cannot co-exist with other religions but must build their house of worship on top of that of other older religions…Not only do they not get along with other religions, they also do not get along amongst themselves…

  • Indian

    @larissa

    “I remember asking my grocer’s wife from Kerela how they became Christians. They seem to believe in a myth that St.Thomas spread Christian teachings. When I told her that they were forcibly converted by force and the St.Thomas story is a myth, she just gave a sheepish grin.”

    And you would know this is a myth because? Let me guess because the Grocer’s Wife did not offer a rebuttal to your knowledgeable self?

  • Julian

    “And you would know this is a myth because?”

    Because there is no evidence supporting this fable genius.

    Suggest you go read what competent historians have to say regarding that fable.

    The origin of Christinsanity in India can be traced to mid 4th cent CE no further. A group of Syrian Christians landed as refugees in Kerala and were given shelter by Hindus, they were persecuted by the Persian empire because they were suspected about their loyalty and rightly so. When Vasco Da Gama landed in 15th century their leaders went to him, pledged their loyalty and asked him to destroy the Hindu raja’s who gave them shelter and help them spread Christinsanity in India. It’s another matter that after using them the Portuguese turned around and went after them because they weren’t Catholics.

    Here is what arch secularist Sanjay Subramanyam says regarding this treason of Christians:

    Between November 1502 and January 1503, Gama used Cochin as a central point at which information was collected and from which feelers were sent out. For instance, in the second hald of November, he was paid a visit by some men, who stated that they were representatives of the Christians of Mangalor and several other places, a community allegedly numbering some 30,000 persons. They spoke amongst other things of the tomb of the Apostle St Thomas, and of their pilgrimages there; it must have been possible for the Portuguese of Gama’s fleet to draw the connection between these Christians, and those described by Joseph of Cranganor. 82 Indeed, it would appear that these Christians were infact from Cranganor, and they seem either to have offered to submit themselves to D. Manuel (and thus to his representative, Gama), or at least to have proposed an alliance based on a common faith, giving Gama a red staff with silver ends, and three silver bells on it, as a ceremonial offering. This Christian network was also extended as far as the southern Kerala ports of Kollam and Kayamkulam, from which certain Syrian Christians arrived to see Gama at Cochin in mid-December. At their urging, Gama sent two ships there to lade spices, and then in early January, a third, the Leitoa Nova, on which our anonymous Flemish author voyaged. A letter of December 1504, written by a certain Matias, a Syrian Christian from Kayamkulam, to D. Manuel, claimed credit for this: ‘Of the ships in which the Admiral came as Captain-Major, I arranged the lading for the two.’ 83

    82 For a discussion of these early relations between the St Thomas Christians and the Portuguese, see Luis Filipe F.R. Thomaz, ‘A “Carta que mandaram os Padres da India, da China e da Magna Chinda” – um relato siriaco da chegada dos Portugueses ao Malabar’, Revista da Universidade de Coimbra 36 (1991), 119-81, especially pp. 131-2; also Joao Paulo Oliveira e Costa ‘Os Portugueses e a cristandade siro-malabar (1498-1530)’, Studia 52 (1994), 121-78, especially pp. 126-36.

    The career and legend of VASCO DA GAMA, Sanjay Subrahmanyam, Cambridge University Press, Pg 324-325

  • Julian

    “This is referred to by a certain Joao Garces, an interpreter (lingua) with long experience in Kerala, in a letter of early 1529 to D. Joao III, but also finds mention in Mar Jacob’s letter of late 1524. 68 The bishop writes, after recounting all his actions in favor of the Portuguese Crown:

    This, Sire is the service that I have done in these parts, with the intention of moving you to help me in the expansion of these people [Syrian Christians] through this India in the faith of Jesus Christ, our Redeemer. And now there is more need of it [help] than ever, because since I have helped you as I said, the Moors have robbed me and killed many of my people, and also burnt our houses and churches, by which we have been greatly distressed and dishonoured.

    The career and legend of VASCO DA GAMA, Sanjay Subrahmanyam, Cambridge University Press, Pg 217-218″

    K.M. Panikkar, in Malabar and the Portuguese, writes, “More than this, they suggested to [Vasco da Gama] that with their help he should conquer the Hindu kingdoms and invited him to build a fortress for this purpose in Cranganore. This was the recompense which the Hindu rajas received for treating with liberality and kindness the Christians in their midst.”

    As far as the anti Hindu myth made up by Christians about “St” Thomas visiting India and being killed by Brahmins. That hoax has been thoroughly exposed by Ishwar Sharan here:

    http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/the-myth-of-st-thomas-and-the-mylapore-shiva-temple/

    I suggest you do a little reading “Indian” before typing away comments here.

    By the way what a vile community, getting shelter from Hindus but stabbing them in the back at the very first opportunity. Wonder what we should call a “religion” that prompts such behavior.

  • Jagadish

    Don’t feed the trolls. I could come up with a witty repartee about Mary and Joseph, but just ignore them, they usually go away.

  • larissa

    @Julian
    “The workshop of Pheidias was turned into a Basilica and the site was inhabited by a Christian community until the late 6th century.”
    That is interesting to note, the Muslims did the same to Hagia Sophia in Constantinople and turned it into a mosque! These religions are all the same except that Christianity has been kept in check due to the scientific revolution so they no longer initiate inquisitions. The sciences died out on the ancient world as soon as Christians began to dominate and Europe entered the dark ages. Just as India entered the dark ages after the coming of Islam for 8oo years. In the case of India it sitll is not out of the dark ages…
    The Romans become petty after becoming Christians, they lose their largeness, grandeur, nobility and magnanimity. Much of the current spiritual crisis in the West stems from Christianity as people no longer find truth in it yet since Christianity destroyed the native religions, they have nothing in their own tradition to turn to as they are no longer living traditions, so are in a spiritual vacuum.
    Alain de Benoist an intellectual of the French Right has written how the seeds of totalitarianism, Marxim, Communism, racism have their seeds in Christianity, these systems also “impose” their limited vision on others. Even if you do not agree with Benoist’s politics, he is a scholar on antiquity and is full of insights on the Hellenic world. “on being a pagan” is an excellent book on how the roots of Western Civilization is in its Greco-Roman culture. Indeed, the Judaeo-Christian tradition was like a graft, the real genius of the West lay in Greece and Rome and the West has had greatness when it reverted to the Greco-Roman vision…

  • larissa

    @Indian

    “And you would know this is a myth because? Let me guess because the Grocer’s Wife did not offer a rebuttal to your knowledgeable self?”

    No because like most Indians she does not read anything and does not know her own history…

  • trueq

    In an interview conducted with The Daily News Egypt, Omar Sharif mentioned his views on religion, and religious people:

    “When one sees what happens in the world between the religions, the different religions – killing each other and murdering each, it’s disgusting and as far as I am concerned it’s ridiculous. So I thought I might be useful, I believe in God and I believe in religion, but believe religions should belong to you. The extraordinary thing is that the Jews believe that only the Jews can go to paradise, the Christians believe that only a Christian can go to paradise and the Muslims believe that only the Muslims can go to paradise. Now why should God, in his great justice, make somebody born that cannot go to paradise – it is absurd. Please forgive me I don’t mean to say it’s absurd, people made it absurd

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpxoknyYydI

    Please wait for some time.

  • Julian

    Hey Joseph George is this how you Christians display your loyalty to India:

    “To her Most Gracious Majesty Victoria, by the Grace of God, Queen by the Grace of God, Queen of Great Britain and Defender of the Faith

    We, native Christians of the Province of Tinnevelly, in the English dominions, who, by means of the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in foreign parts, and the Church Missionary Society, have embraced the Christian religion, in number of 40,000 persons, persume to approach the feet of your Gracious Majesty, with all humility and reverence, presenting this humble memorial….. Incalculable are the benefits that have accrued to our country from the English rule… We have heard with much sorrow that there are in these times many of the kingdoms of Europe revolutions and sanguinary wars; but we have heard also, with the greatest joy, that in happy England peace and prosperity prevail… Surely then, we who enjoy these inestimable blessings, under a Christian Government, are, above all our fellow subjects, bound to acknowledge to Your Gracious Majesty our obligations to be at all times unfeignedly thankful for them; and we would also entreat, with the confidence and humility of children, that Your Majesty, agreeable to the words of Holy Writ, “Kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and queens thy nursing mothers,” will graciously extend to us your care and protection…

    (Pg 117-119, Missionaries in India by Arun Shourie)”

  • Gopi

    They do it everywhere. I visit a Buddhist-Taoist temple complex in Hong Kong every Sunday! Once a month, a group of Christians used to gather outside temple (in th common yard), beat drums + sing their songs so loudly for 2-3 hours that it is difficult to chat or hear anything even inside the (four) temples. Some of them distribute pamphlets and carry flags about “Jesus Love” and “evil idolatry” and other such nonsense. Sunday is the busiest day for temple visitors and this is what the devotees of “religion of love” do to others.
    The apologists for such obscene conduct always give caste as reason for conversion activities in India but that is clearly a non-factor in HK so what is the excuse for such behavior?

  • Nipun

    Does this mean all Christians are evil beings? So does the author and multiple commentators such as Julian look at Christians in India as a problem? Are we looking for a “Final” solution? What makes a religion superior or inferior to another? A question argued by theologians since time in memorial but the answer lies in the comments above! Honestly every religion be it Hinduism, Islam or Christianity have a dark side and a dark history…. But I guess Atanu as you blogs title suggests for India’s development let us slander all other religions…

  • Julian

    “Are we looking for a “Final” solution? What makes a religion superior or inferior to another?”

    What an idiot.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

    A true scumbag who tries to play equal equal when it was the Christians who perpetrated the Inquisition on Hindus and run a terrorist campaign in the North East based on their cult.

    Why don’t you ask your Christian friends to stop implementing the final solution there instead of expressing phony outrage here?

    And since Christinsanity is a belief system there is no reason for any “final solutions” ala Hitler (by the way the Holocaust partly happened due to Christian teachings, read for example Martin Luther’s hate tract “The Jews and their Lies” which was reprinted and much admired by Nazis), just bring people out of their delusional beliefs, the same way many Europeans abandoned the cult when we found out that its beliefs have no truth and the genocides it perpetrated on our pagan ancestors.

  • Julian

    Nipun the fact that you brought up “final solution” reference so quickly is a pure case of projection and tells us more about your own dark fantasies (perhaps fantasies about exterminating Hindus like how you Christians exterminated European Pagans).

    Here is Martin Luther the father of Protestant Reformation showing more Christian “love” that paved the way for the “final solution”:

    Paul Johnson writes that “Luther was not content with verbal abuse. Even before he wrote his anti-Semitic pamphlet, he got Jews expelled from Saxony in 1537, and in the 1540s he drove them from many German towns; he tried unsuccessfully to get the elector to expel them from Brandenburg in 1543.”[23]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

    In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a “base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth.”[13] They are full of the “devil’s feces … which they wallow in like swine.”[14] The synagogue was a “defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut …”[15] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[16] afforded no legal protection,[17] and these “poisonous envenomed worms” should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[18] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing “[w]e are at fault in not slaying them.”[19]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism#On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

    “Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the defendants’ dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration by the prosecution. In the book ‘The Jews and Their Lies,’ Dr. Martin Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent’s brood and one should burn down their synagogues and destroy them.” – Nazi Julius Streicher at the Nuremberg Trials.

  • Julian

    Gopi or any other Hindu reading this, please try the following and tell others also to do it when you encounter Christian fanatics:

    ‘Please open your Bible and read the Gospel of Mark, chapter 16, verse 16, 17 and 18′ I said and while they flicked through their Bibles I went quickly inside and came out again.

    One of them found the passage and I asked him to read it out loud. It said, ‘He who believes and is baptized will be saved but he who does not believe shall be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe in my name. They shall cast out devils, they shall speak in tongues, they will handle snakes and if they drink poison it will not hurt them and they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover’.

    When he finished I said, ‘In that passage Jesus says that if you have real faith you will be able to drink poison and not die’. I took a bottle of Lankem from behind my back, held it up and said, ‘Here is some poison. Demonstrate to me the strength of your faith and I will listen to anything you have to say about Jesus’.

    You should have seen the looks on their faces! They didn’t know what to say. ‘What’s the problem’? I asked. ‘Is your faith not strong enough’? They hesitated for a few moments and then one of them replied, ‘The Bible also says that we must not test God’. ‘I’m not testing God’, I said, ‘I’m testing you. You love to witness for Jesus and now is your big opportunity’.

    Finally one of them said, ‘We will go and speak to our pastor about this matter and come back and see you. ‘Ill be waiting for you’ I said as they scurried away. Of course they never came back again. Here is a bit of advice.

    Keep a copy of this Bible reference and a bottle of Lankem ready and every time the evangelists come to your door to harass you give them this test. You might like to have a polanga ready as well…

    http://www.hvk.org/articles/1004/122.html

  • Nipun

    Julian I wish you would stop quoting wikipedia and shady blogs as your sources! Give me 15 mins and I’ll “create” some history for you in wikipedia :) . Why single out Christianity or Islam for your spite. I believe all three could do with some reforms which with the radicalization of the world has stopped. There was a progression, an evolution of all religion’s to accommodate the changing world. Maybe the pace has increased so much that it scares those slow on uptake of the vastness of the new world that is why they have to taken to rigorous evangelicalism or in your case rabid pessimism of other religion.

    And my so called “dark” fantasy is that there is more positive debate with religion and caste being side lined with common goals of social equality and a better tomorrow. The debate these days seems more like a roadies audition where the audacious, asinine and the most obnoxious whore up to the spotlight. My deep lament is that India’s tomorrow is full of hate, intolerance and bigotry as evident by the online discourse.

  • Sid

    The debate these days seems more like a roadies audition where the audacious, asinine and the most obnoxious whore up to the spotlight. My deep lament is that India’s tomorrow is full of hate, intolerance and bigotry as evident by the online discourse.

    You yourself is proving your own point by using the words that do not exactly advertise tolerance or love.

    There was a progression, an evolution of all religion’s to accommodate the changing world.

    Would you mind showing us some of those progress made? Would you mind showing me a single international organization that ever talked against the evangelist excesses in various countries of Africa and Asia?

    The truth is that western world is full of zealot Christians who would like to harvest souls. For this purpose they keep donating a percent of their salary to church every month. At one hand, evangelists would come here and subvert the governments, political parties to harvest souls. On the other hand, if we protest, we get branded as intolerant reminding you some “obnoxious whore”. I can see where your brand of tolerance is coming from – the same ideological predecessors who started inquisition in Goa to….well…teach tolerance to Christianity.

  • Julian

    “Julian I wish you would stop quoting wikipedia and shady blogs as your sources!”

    Yet you have failed to refute anything wikipedia said.

    What “shady” blogs?

    If you had any facts you would have refuted them long ago but instead wants to pass off all religions as “equal”.

    Here you will find Luther’s “On the Jews and their Lies” freely available online:

    http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm

    Go ahead read it and feel the Christian “love” oozing through every sentence.

    Even the Lutherans themselves admit that he said these things, you could have easily found the relevant pamphlet by Luther by googling for a few seconds but you didn’t because you are not interested in the truth but in keeping Hindus defenseless while you Christians attack and terrorise them everyday and run Inquisitions on them.

    Your references to “whore” and “final solution” are indicative of your own poisonous mindset and fantasies as I have said.

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