Comments on: The “dot-corn” Bubble http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/ Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:17:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Best Business Blog Posts in India: Weekly Edition 3 | Asia Stock and Financial News http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116954 Best Business Blog Posts in India: Weekly Edition 3 | Asia Stock and Financial News Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:47:52 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116954 [...] Atanu Dey brings in new perspectives on the dot-corn food versus fuel debate [...] [...] Atanu Dey brings in new perspectives on the dot-corn food versus fuel debate [...]

]]> By: baawara http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116810 baawara Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:29:34 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116810 @Atanu ... Good example of how things depend on perspective and context -- 10% coal reserves are less for 17% of world population, but more for 2.2% of world's landmass ... So,by extension, India is not naturally endowed with land resources .... good case for invading Siberia and Australia .. not entirely fair of the Russians and Westerners to have captured all those thinly populated lands a few hundred years back @Atanu … Good example of how things depend on perspective and context –
10% coal reserves are less for 17% of world population, but more for 2.2% of world’s landmass …
So,by extension, India is not naturally endowed with land resources ….
good case for invading Siberia and Australia .. not entirely fair of the Russians and Westerners to have captured all those thinly populated lands a few hundred years back

]]> By: Atanu Dey http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116757 Atanu Dey Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:43:37 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116757 Amit: Thanks a lot. I have fixed that link. Amit:

Thanks a lot. I have fixed that link.

]]> By: Amit http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116755 Amit Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:57:15 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116755 <i>Mother Jones magazine did <b>a story on it in November 2007</b> (where I had come across the term “dot corn”).</i> Atanu, the Mother Jones link is the same as in the paragraph above it - the Time magazine article. Mother Jones magazine did a story on it in November 2007 (where I had come across the term “dot corn”).

Atanu, the Mother Jones link is the same as in the paragraph above it – the Time magazine article.

]]> By: A picture speaks a 1000 kernels « ThinkChange India http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116754 A picture speaks a 1000 kernels « ThinkChange India Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:17:33 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116754 [...] A picture speaks a 1000 kernels Posted on April 4, 2008 by Vinay Here is a clear and well designed image by Mother Jones that succinctly explains the negative aspects for the world of pushing for corn-based ethanol. Termed by the magazine as dot corn, the full size image can be found here. [Source: Atanu Dey] [...] [...] A picture speaks a 1000 kernels Posted on April 4, 2008 by Vinay Here is a clear and well designed image by Mother Jones that succinctly explains the negative aspects for the world of pushing for corn-based ethanol. Termed by the magazine as dot corn, the full size image can be found here. [Source: Atanu Dey] [...]

]]> By: vakibs http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116752 vakibs Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:01:08 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116752 Hi Atanu It will be interesting to note your suggestions on how India can achieve energy security. One way would be to invest in nuclear energy. With the Uranium reserves of the world resting at 2500 ZJ, it is 10 times higher than the collect reserves of oil, coal and gas. This would mean we shift to an economy based on electric current and reduce our dependency on fuel-based-vehicles. Also, I believe that it could be early to reach a judgement on the bio-fuel debate. As you have said, corn ethanol subsidies are misdirected. But, US is still not investing enough for research into cellulose based ethanol or other biofuels. The TIME magazine found fault with biofuels for the reckless over-forestation drive, but wouldn't people deforest without having to grow biofuel crops ? This is a serious problem by itself which is directly related to the overpopulation of the planet. I believe linking this with corn-ethanol ito be sleazy journalism. Hi Atanu

It will be interesting to note your suggestions on how India can achieve energy security. One way would be to invest in nuclear energy. With the Uranium reserves of the world resting at 2500 ZJ, it is 10 times higher than the collect reserves of oil, coal and gas.

This would mean we shift to an economy based on electric current and reduce our dependency on fuel-based-vehicles.

Also, I believe that it could be early to reach a judgement on the bio-fuel debate. As you have said, corn ethanol subsidies are misdirected. But, US is still not investing enough for research into cellulose based ethanol or other biofuels.

The TIME magazine found fault with biofuels for the reckless over-forestation drive, but wouldn’t people deforest without having to grow biofuel crops ? This is a serious problem by itself which is directly related to the overpopulation of the planet. I believe linking this with corn-ethanol ito be sleazy journalism.

]]> By: Atanu Dey http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116751 Atanu Dey Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:58:15 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116751 Baawara: My claim that India is not well-endowed fossil fuel wise is based on: (1) India has 17 percent of the world's populationa (2) It has around 10 percent of the world's coal reserves (3) The coal is very low quality -- high sulfur and is extremely polluting. The lack of conventional fuels can actually be a blessing. It provides an incentive for inventiveness that others better endowed may lack. But then perhaps India lacks the political will and the vision to take this challenge. Baawara:

My claim that India is not well-endowed fossil fuel wise is based on: (1) India has 17 percent of the world’s populationa (2) It has around 10 percent of the world’s coal reserves (3) The coal is very low quality — high sulfur and is extremely polluting.

The lack of conventional fuels can actually be a blessing. It provides an incentive for inventiveness that others better endowed may lack. But then perhaps India lacks the political will and the vision to take this challenge.

]]> By: Amit http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116750 Amit Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:01:18 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116750 Correction: (which <b>are</b> very inefficient) Correction: (which are very inefficient)

]]> By: Amit http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116749 Amit Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:59:47 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116749 There are two areas that remain somewhat unexplored and marginalized, though they will become more prominent. 1. Renewable energy. India is very near the tropics, and gets lot of sun. Solar power. Thar desert. India has a vast coastline, and tidal power generation can contribute to the energy demands. These two won't cover all the energy needs, but can play some role in conjunction with other sources. 2. There are probably many areas where energy is used very inefficiently, because when systems were designed 50+ years ago, peak oil was not in the vocabulary. We've been using incandescent bulbs (which ars very inefficient) for such a long time, and only lately is there a move to switch to CFLs. Similarly, I'm sure there are other systems and designs and habits that need a closer scrutiny and redesign/change to become more efficient. Dark Skies Initiative is one, though it's more of an issue in the West now - let's hope that India doesn't make that mistake. Amory Lovins has written a lot on how to cut waste in systems and make them more energy efficient. There are two areas that remain somewhat unexplored and marginalized, though they will become more prominent.

1. Renewable energy. India is very near the tropics, and gets lot of sun. Solar power. Thar desert. India has a vast coastline, and tidal power generation can contribute to the energy demands. These two won’t cover all the energy needs, but can play some role in conjunction with other sources.

2. There are probably many areas where energy is used very inefficiently, because when systems were designed 50+ years ago, peak oil was not in the vocabulary. We’ve been using incandescent bulbs (which ars very inefficient) for such a long time, and only lately is there a move to switch to CFLs. Similarly, I’m sure there are other systems and designs and habits that need a closer scrutiny and redesign/change to become more efficient. Dark Skies Initiative is one, though it’s more of an issue in the West now – let’s hope that India doesn’t make that mistake. Amory Lovins has written a lot on how to cut waste in systems and make them more energy efficient.

]]> By: baawara http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-116748 baawara Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:15:34 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/04/03/the-dot-corn-bubble/#comment-116748 Agree that we must discover cheap, non-polluting, alternate power sources ... that aside .. There are a few things that go around largely free ... air is a good example ... though it is a bit polluted in indian cities ... and very polluted near some chemical plants coming close to air is water ... Water is not as free as air ... but it is still largely available (unless you live in noida) and affordable ... I get a wild thought - why don't people make a case for auctioning off all the available fresh water reserves to get an efficient allocation of the scarce resource ... The current contract, that social setup has with individual people, allows for relatively free access to small amounts of water ... I think food is not too far from water ... Social contract should try to keep it fairly within reach ... There will always be people who want to spend their surplus on pleasure <i>(nothing wrong with it ... that's what surplus is for anyways)</i> ... but if that pleasure starts making food dearer to starving people then i would be very concerned ... It would take the world's poor a few generations to be economically productive enough to afford sufficient nutrition ... till they reach that stage , according to my morality , their food should not be snatched ... and definitely not by distorting market equilibrium ... So I am not for bio-fuels ... but that's my opinion ... here's a factual correction What you said about Indian fossil fuel reserves <i>"...As India is not naturally endowed with fossil fuel reserves .."</i> ... does not seem to be factually correct .... we have substantial reserves of coal, which is a fossil fuel ... Wiki says we have around 10% of world's proven coal reserves . Currently we are the third largest producers ... and do not figure on top-exporter list therefore are not depleting our reserves by selling them off... moreover we are still exploring gas and oil reserves ... the explorations may bear fruits .... gist being that things are not very bleak on fossil fuel front ... I say this without denying that things are bleak on indigenous petrol and petroleum products front. Agree that we must discover cheap, non-polluting, alternate power sources …

that aside ..

There are a few things that go around largely free … air is a good example … though it is a bit polluted in indian cities … and very polluted near some chemical plants

coming close to air is water … Water is not as free as air … but it is still largely available (unless you live in noida) and affordable … I get a wild thought – why don’t people make a case for auctioning off all the available fresh water reserves to get an efficient allocation of the scarce resource …

The current contract, that social setup has with individual people, allows for relatively free access to small amounts of water …

I think food is not too far from water … Social contract should try to keep it fairly within reach … There will always be people who want to spend their surplus on pleasure (nothing wrong with it … that’s what surplus is for anyways) … but if that pleasure starts making food dearer to starving people then i would be very concerned …

It would take the world’s poor a few generations to be economically productive enough to afford sufficient nutrition … till they reach that stage , according to my morality , their food should not be snatched … and definitely not by distorting market equilibrium …
So I am not for bio-fuels …

but that’s my opinion …

here’s a factual correction
What you said about Indian fossil fuel reserves “…As India is not naturally endowed with fossil fuel reserves ..” … does not seem to be factually correct …. we have substantial reserves of coal, which is a fossil fuel … Wiki says we have around 10% of world’s proven coal reserves . Currently we are the third largest producers … and do not figure on top-exporter list therefore are not depleting our reserves by selling them off…
moreover we are still exploring gas and oil reserves … the explorations may bear fruits ….

gist being that things are not very bleak on fossil fuel front … I say this without denying that things are bleak on indigenous petrol and petroleum products front.

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