Atanu Dey On India's Development

Exporting Islam

My friend Nitin Pai of The Acorn has an op-ed in the Mint, “Why India must export its Islam.” He writes:

In a secular state such as India, there is little role for the state in matters of faith and religion. But the rise of a radical, intolerant version of Islam around the world is also not in its interests. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran have no self-imposed restrictions on promoting their own Islamic values. It is unlikely that India can counter these exertions of soft power by promoting the virtues of secularism to the Islamic world. But it could promote its own syncretic Islamic tradition to offer an alternative narrative to the world’s Muslims.

Nitin is an astute observer and I have the utmost respect for his incisive commentary and analysis of matters of importance. Try as I might, however, I cannot see what he means in that op-ed.

I like his use of the word “syncretic” which the big dic defines as the “reconciliation or fusion of differing systems of belief, as in philosophy or religion, especially when success is partial or the result is heterogeneous.” I think that word is very well chosen.

My position is that we need to understand that there is a distinction between Islam and Muslims. There is in a very strict sense something called Islam which is defined by the Koran and the Hadiths. The literal meaning of Islam is “submission to the will of Allah” or just “submission” and at its core, Islam proclaims that it is the perfect religion and therefore unalterable and is the final word of god. Any change or dilution of the core beliefs is by definition not Islam. Islam’s claim to be the only true and perfect faith automatically relegates all other faiths to be false and evil. Other faiths, which are by definition imperfect from an Islamic point of view, can change or mutate but Islam cannot — and indeed does not — need to change.

I have read the Koran in translation and I must admit that it does not appeal to me. I am fiercely atheistic and value free expression and the equality of all humans irrespective of sex, sexual orientation, caste, creed, national origin, etc. Islam apparently is antithetical to all that I value and hold sacred. But then I am an “infidel”, a non-believer, and what is worse, I am an idol-worshipping Hindu. But others who are not similarly burdened do criticize Islam also. Here’s Ayaan Hirsi Ali, born in a devout Muslim family, in a recent column in the Washington Post titled “My View of Islam“:

On the issues of holy war (jihad), apostasy and the treatment of women, the Koran and Sunna are clear. It is the obligation of every Muslim to spread Islam to unbelievers first through dawa, or proselytizing, then through jihad, if the unbelievers refuse to convert. It is the obligation of the unbelievers to accept Islam. Exempted from this edict of conversion are the people of the book: Christians and Jews. Both peoples have a choice. They may adopt Islam and enjoy the same rights as other Muslims, or they may stick to their book and lead the life of a dhimmi (lower citizen). Legally, the rights of the dhimmi are not equal to those of a Muslim. For instance, a Muslim man may take a Jewish or Christian wife, but Jews and Christians are not allowed to marry Muslim women. If a Christian or a Jew kills a Muslim man, they should be killed immediately. In contrast, the blood of a Muslim should never be shed in recompense for the blood of Christians or Jews.

It is also the obligation of every Muslim to command virtue and forbid vice. Apostasy, the worst possible vice a Muslim can commit, should be punished by death. The punishment need not be carried out by a state, but can easily be enforced by civilians. When it is a question of Islamic law, justice is in the hands of every Muslim.

[I am appending the entire column at the end of this post.]

But that criticism comes at enormous personal and public costs. Islam tolerates no dissent. And if a Muslim is true to the faith, he or she is mandated to enforce the punishment for apostasy. One example most of us are familiar with is that of Tasleema Nasreen. Reuters reported yesterday that Muslim lawmakers attack Taslima Nasreen in Hyderabad, India.

Muslim protesters assaulted the exiled Bangladeshi author and feminist Taslima Nasreen at a book launch in Hyderabad on Thursday, incensed by her repeated criticism of Islam and religion in general.

Some radical Muslims hate Nasreen for saying Islam and other religions oppress women.

On Thursday, lawmakers and members of the All India Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen party attacked her at the press club in Hyderabad at the launch of a Telugu translation of one of her novels.

An uneasy-looking Nasreen backed into a corner as several middle-aged men threw a leather case, bunches of flowers and other objects at her head and threatened her with a chair, according to a Reuters witness and television pictures.

Some of the mob shouted for her death.

Other men tried to shield her and catch the projectiles. She ended up with a bruised forehead, and described the attack as barbaric before being taken to safety by police.

Nasreen fled Bangladesh for the first time in 1994 when a court said she had “deliberately and maliciously” hurt Muslims’ religious feelings with her Bengali-language novel “Lajja”, or “Shame”, which is about riots between Muslims and Hindus.

At the time, thousands of radical Muslims protested against her, demanding that she be killed for blasphemy, and some have continued to threaten her life ever since.

Police said they have arrested three state lawmakers from the political party along with 15 party workers.

Islam, according to itself, is perfect and it makes no sense to claim that there are different kinds of Islam. Indeed, a non-Muslim’s claim that there are different versions of Islam smacks of arrogance and condescension that is only matched by Islam’s arrogance and condescension that it is perfect and immutable. Muslims, on the other hand, are humans and live all over the world and are therefore understandably a heterogeneous lot. Though they profess the same faith, how they live differs according to local conditions. Indian Muslims are distinctly different from say Egyptian Muslims but that does not mean that the Islam they both profess is different. Therefore it is not very clear that there is such a thing as “Indian Islam” while there is such a thing as an Indian Muslim.

So back to the matter of exporting Islam as Nitin advocates. Suppose we were to admit that Indian Muslims were different and in some sense “better” than the Muslims in other parts of the world — that Indian Muslims are less radical than others — then we have to ask ourselves what is the reason for the difference. Could it be that Indian Muslims are embedded in a largely non-Muslim society and that perhaps is the reason for the difference? If so, then one can argue that it is not that Indian Muslims practice a different Islam but it is their environment in which they exist that makes them different. So then the radical Muslims in non-Indian locations can only be made non-radical by embedding them in largely non-Muslim populations.

Imagine surrounding Muslims in Pakistan with such numbers of non-Muslims that they become non-radical. Ridiculous doesn’t even come close to describing it. I am sure that Nitin does not mean to imply that exporting Hindus to Saudi Arabia is part of the plan but that is the logical implication of his proposal.

My basic proposition is that to the extent that Muslims in India are who they are is not because they follow a different Koran but because they live among people who are non-Muslims. Therefore in countries that are predominantly Muslim, what you find is a more accurate practice of Islam. I think that it is the height of arrogance to believe that it is alright to force your brand of Islam on people. It is abhorrent to me for the same reason that I find it abhorrent that monotheists in their arrogance try to convert other people.

The question of Islam and its present disposition around the world has serious implications for India both economically and socially. The political entity we call India today is of course a modern invention going back less than two centuries. But the civilization that is at the core of this modern India — the Indic civilization — is very ancient. That ancient civilization has been losing ground — both metaphorically and physically — to Islam for a millennium. It can be argued that the places that the Indic civilization lost have seen a deterioration as a result. For example, present day Afghanistan has lost much of the glory that it had as a Buddhist civilization.

I am mindful of the fact that stating one’s opinion on Islam is a crime against humanity or something tantamount to that in some people’s opinion. It is the only sacred cow left, it would appear. One can honestly state that one is opposed to Nazism, or communism, or libertarianism or Christianity or Hinduism or Voodooism. But you are not allowed to criticize Islam. You are an “Islamophobe” and have offended 1.5 billion Muslims. I just don’t quite understand why Islam has to be above criticism. I can understand that Muslims are bound by their faith to follow the dictates of Islam and not criticize Islam. But since when have non-Muslims come to be governed by Islamic laws in their non-Islamic societies?

To be very clear about this, I am an “Islamophobe” in the sense of the word that I am terrified of Islam. Islam seeks my annihilation in no uncertain terms as I am a non-believer and an idol worshiper. (I hope that it is clear that I am not a “Muslimophobe” — so back off with the outraged comments about “how dare you insult 1.5 billion Muslims”.) My hatred of an ideology is a reasoned response to what the ideology is. Other people can and do have different assessments of different ideologies and it is certainly not a crime (at least not yet in India) to hold differing opinions. So, yes, my opinion of Islam is no higher than Islam’s opinion of me.

To oppose those who actively seek your destruction is an eminently reasonable position to me. Islam in India came as the ideology of conquerors and even now India is an unfinished business for the forces of Islam. I value my cultural heritage and I don’t care how the pseudo-secular brigade wants to wipe it out but I will defend it with all that I have. I am willing to live and let live but I will oppose as a moral duty — my dharma — any attempt at the Islamization of my land, just as surely I would expect the Saudi Arabians to defend their culture from being over-run by Hindus or Christians. What I oppose is typified by the statement of a Pakistani in a recent article in TIME magazine article, “Pakistan: Divided by Faith“:

Still, many South Asian Muslims insist Islam is the one and only force that can bring the subcontinent together and return it to preeminence as a single whole. “We [Muslims] were the legal rulers of India, and in 1857 the British took that away from us,” says Tarik Jan, a gentle-mannered scholar at Islamabad’s Institute of Policy Studies. “In 1947 they should have given that back to the Muslims.” Jan is no militant, but he pines for the golden era of the Mughal period in the 1700s, and has a fervent desire to see India, Pakistan and Bangladesh reunited under Islamic rule.

The Koran perhaps promises the entire universe to Muslims as wages for jihad on non-believers but it should not surprise anyone if I oppose my destruction with equal force. It is time to take a stand against oppression and hatred. Else one should be prepared to be annihilated.

By the way, if you are offended by my position, do send me a link to your writings where you protested the call for murder of writers and cartoonists by an Indian Muslim minister of the government, send me where you opposed the banning of books by the government of India, where you opposed the division of Indian society through religion-based discrimination, etc. I will entertain your objections. Otherwise stuff it you know where.

~ / ~ /~ / ~ / ~

My View of Islam
by Ayaan Hirsi Ali

On holy war, apostasy and the rights of women in Islam.

The undisputed definition of Islam by all her adherents is “submission to the will of Allah.” This divine will is outlined in the Koran and in the teachings and deeds of Muhammad, as recorded in the Hadith or Sunna.

While the Koran is considered to be the true, undiluted word of God revealed to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel, the Sunna carry less weight and have always been a cause for disagreement amongst Muslim scholars. Theologians of Islam have, however, reached consensus on the authority of a set of six volumes from the Sunna called the Sahih Sita, or authentic six.

On the issues of holy war (jihad), apostasy and the treatment of women, the Koran and Sunna are clear. It is the obligation of every Muslim to spread Islam to unbelievers first through dawa, or proselytizing, then through jihad, if the unbelievers refuse to convert. It is the obligation of the unbelievers to accept Islam. Exempted from this edict of conversion are the people of the book: Christians and Jews. Both peoples have a choice. They may adopt Islam and enjoy the same rights as other Muslims, or they may stick to their book and lead the life of a dhimmi (lower citizen). Legally, the rights of the dhimmi are not equal to those of a Muslim. For instance, a Muslim man may take a Jewish or Christian wife, but Jews and Christians are not allowed to marry Muslim women. If a Christian or a Jew kills a Muslim man, they should be killed immediately. In contrast, the blood of a Muslim should never be shed in recompense for the blood of Christians or Jews.

It is also the obligation of every Muslim to command virtue and forbid vice. Apostasy, the worst possible vice a Muslim can commit, should be punished by death. The punishment need not be carried out by a state, but can easily be enforced by civilians. When it is a question of Islamic law, justice is in the hands of every Muslim.

As for the treatment of women, in the Koran and more elaborately in the Sunna, Islam assigns to girls a position in the family that requires them to be docile, makes them dependent on their male relatives for money and gives dominion over their bodies to these same male kin.

In Islam there is a strict hierarchy of subservience. First and foremost, all humans are required to be the slaves of Allah. In Muslim societies, all children must obey their parents. Beyond this, women and girls must obey and serve without question their male guardians and especially their husbands. This decree of marital obedience is not in any way reciprocal.

A woman in Islam is not competent and must always have a guardian. The responsibility of guardianship may pass from father to brother to uncle before a girl is married off, at which point she must answer to her husband. Marriage is typically arranged, with no choice given to the girl, and there is often an exchange of money in the process. Thus, under the religious rule of Islam, it is still common today that a woman’s rights are essentially sold to a man she may not know, and most likely does not love.

As for education of girls under Islam, there is a clear program of indoctrination of inequality. Under Islam, education is the passing on of the rules of submission to the will of Allah. Intrinsic in this “education” is the dictation of gender roles. Girls are instructed in subservience first to God, then to the family and finally to the husband. There is strict emphasis on modesty, defined by virginity. A Muslim girl is taught to guard fiercely her virginity as an expression of loyalty to her creator and to her family and husband.

This form of education hampers her chances of ever becoming self-reliant or financially independent. A woman’s lack of social equality and freedom is a direct consequence of the teachings of Islam. Under Islam, a wife must always ask her husband for permission and she must obey indefinitely. This stricture is lifted in the unique event that he asks her to forsake God, wherein she is allowed the right of disobedience. While it is true that in Islam, technically speaking, women have the right to trade and own property, the condition of total obedience to guardians makes this “freedom” hypothetical, at best.

The goal of education given to girls under Islam is the achievement of control over female sexuality. The result of this indoctrination is that Muslim girls believe legitimate and often vocally defend their position of subordination. The lengths a Muslim society will go to in the pursuit of sexual control often cross into the territory of the absurd and, by western standards, criminal. In Islam the minimum age of marriage for a girl is after her first menstruation. Muhammad was engaged to his wife Aisha when she was six years old, and he married her (had intercourse with her) when she turned nine. Millions of Muslim men across the world follow Muhammad in this deed, one of the most prominent examples being the late Ayatollah Khomeini.

Under sharia law (Islamic law), such as governs in Saudi Arabia, Iran and parts of Nigeria, the civil rights of women are dramatically reduced. Threat of violent punishment in the form of whipping and stoning makes the prospect of financial independence and sexual freedom for women all but impossible. Miraculously, even in such harsh circumstances you will find women who are relatively well educated, have some say in choosing a husband and manage to earn a living. Let us be clear that these exceptions are due to the compassion and progressiveness of families who have been influenced by the West, and not to rules derived from Islam.

In the quest for reconciliation between Muslim and western societies, it is important to recognize that Muslims are as diverse as Islam is monolithic. Islam attempts to unify more than a billion people of different geographical origins, languages, ethnicities, and cultural and educational backgrounds into one religious tribe. And while I acknowledge that generally stereotyping believers is difficult since belief is subjective, for the sake of discussion I would like to distinguish between five types of Muslims.

The first group includes those Muslims who leave the faith because they cannot reconcile it with their conscience or with modernity. This group is important for the evolution of the Islamic world because they ask the urgent and critical questions believers usually avoid. Ex-Muslims living in the west are just beginning to find their voice and to take advantage of the spiritual and social freedoms available to them.

The second group is comprised of genuine Muslim reformers, such as Irshad Manji, who acknowledge the theological out-datedness of the Koranic commands and the immorality of the prophet. They tend to emphasize the early chapters in the Koran urging goodness, generosity and spirituality. They argue that the latter chapters wherein Islam is politicized and the concepts of sharia, jihad and martyrdom are introduced should be read in the context in which they were written, some 1,400 years ago.

The third group is made up of those Muslims who support the gradual perpetuation and domination of Islam throughout the world. They use the freedoms offered in democracy to undermine social modernity and, though initially opposed to the use of violence, foresee that once the number of believers reaches a critical mass the last remnants of unbelievers may then be dealt with in violence, and sharia law may be universally implemented. Ayatollah Khomeini used this method successfully in Iran. Erdogan of Turkey is following in his footsteps. Tariq Ramadan, deeply rooted in his Muslim Brotherhood heritage, is devoted to such a program among European Muslims.

The fourth group is the most obvious and immediately threatening. In this group we find a growing number of hard-line Muslims who have defined martyrdom as their only goal. This is an army of young men whipped into a frenzy of suicidal violence by power hungry clergy. These clergy have public platforms and work with impunity from institutions untouched and often funded by national authorities.

The fifth group is largely ineffective and only threatening in their refusal to acknowledge the truth. Here we find the elite clergy who make a show of trying to reconcile Islam with modernity. They are motivated by self-preservation and have no interest in true reform. They take selective passages from the holy books to make a case for a peaceful Islam, ignoring the many passages inciting violence, such as those verses which command the death of apostates.

It is through the first two of these five groups that progress and reform will come. As for the rest, the western world would be wise to recognize the realities of Islam, a religion laid down in writing over a millennium ago with violence and oppression at its heart.

Born in Somalia and raised a devout Muslim, Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an active critic of Islam, an advocate for women’s rights and a leader in the campaign to reform Islam. Her willingness to speak out and her abandonment of the Muslim faith have made her a target for violence and threat of death by Islamic extremists. She is currently a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, in Washington D.C., and is the author of the bestselling memoir “Infidel.”

  • http://apusworld.wordpress.com apu

    I am not sure if Islam as you say is clearly such an unequivocal religion, or is the koran meant to be interpreted, regardless of what orthodox muslims may say? (I am not any authority on this, I admit).

    But I liked your reasoning and in particular the distinction that you draw between ‘Islamophobia’ and ‘Muslimphobia’. And Yes, there is absolutely no reason why one shouldnt criticise Islam. (just like once can criticise any other religion or ideology) All the more kudos to Taslima Nasreen for having the guts to say it like it is.

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  • rishi

    Atanu,
    Every religion has objectionable elements. Hinduism has parts of the Manu Smriti that are degrading to women. The God in the Bible is frequently cruel and sadistic.

    I suspect that if you look for it you will find critical essays about every religion. I dont see how it has any relevance to the article quoted.

  • Amit

    rishi, you can go ahead and criticize Manu Smriti all you want and no one will come after you. Try doing that with something out of Quran and let me know how you fare.

  • Subhas Chilumula

    Dear Atanu,

    I understand your anger at Islam, and your rebuttal of Nitin’s Indian version of Islam. But I think he probably meant softer Islam like Sufism. So far as I have read, there is a hardlined, probably the harshest version of Islam called Wahhabi, promoted throughout the world by Saudi Arabia (how it is not detrimental to its monarchy, I don’t understand). In the recent decade or so, it has gained much prominence, by Bin Laden, Taliban, etc. You can see the results in Indonesia and Malaysia, where Muslims were peace-loving with Hindu names such as Sukarno, Megavati Sukarnoputri, Garuda Airlines, became centers of hard core Islam.

    People tend to forget that there is a version of Islam called Sufism, a devotional form which is more similar to Bhakti marga of Hinduism. Sufism is a peace-loving sect/version in Islam and its revered Khaja Moinuddin Chisti’s Darga is well-known and revered by both Hindus and Muslims. This needs to be promoted within and outside India, even with state patronism if need be, for the well-being of India and the world.

    http://www.dlshq.org/religions/sufism.htm

    http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VIIIa/VIIIa_2_14.htm

    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/diwan.html

    http://hendrasyahputra-d.blogspot.com/

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  • shiva

    Atanu you say

    I am fiercely atheistic …and what is worse, I am an idol-worshipping Hindu.

    I have no problem understanding this line of thinking from from my point of view. I would like to know how you have come to follow this line of thought.

  • AG

    Brilliant write up.
    I especially like your observation that about everyone being open to criticism except islam.

    That has less to do with intellectual issues and more to do with pure cowardice.

    Saying something about islam means you’re liable for elimination!

  • http://islamwatchers.blogspot.com No Dhimmi

    India represents a nation with a large Muslim population that has managed to keep from being completely taken over by Islam. The rest of the world is under threat of Islamicization, and India will be needed as an example of how to prevent that from happening.

    Here is a must-see site:

    The Truth About Islam
    http://islamwatchers.blogspot.com

  • http://acorn.nationalinterest.in Nitin

    Atanu

    You write:

    Islam and Muslims. There is in a very strict sense something called Islam which is defined by the Koran and the Hadiths. The literal meaning of Islam is “submission to the will of Allah” or just “submission” and at its core, Islam proclaims that it is the perfect religion and therefore unalterable and is the final word of god. Any change or dilution of the core beliefs is by definition not Islam.

    Once you accept that this is what Islam is, and any deviation is not Islam, you’ve already accepted the Wahhabi interpretation as the only legitimate one. So does Ms Hirsi Ali. Indeed, that’s exactly what the Wahhabis & Salafis would want. And thanks to petro-dollars, they’ve done a rather good job convincing a lot of people about their sole legitimacy.

    Like the Catholic church which arrogated to itself the exclusive right to interpret the Christian religion (wiping out alternatives over time). And then Martin Luther came along. But even before he came along, there were Copts, Greek Orthodox, Syrian Christians in Kerala etc. We can wait for a Muslim Martin Luther. In the meantime we can promote the Greek Orthodox faith; especially when we are Greeks.

  • http://planetirf.blogspot.com Irfan

    Someone here said that you should try and criticise the Koran and see what happens to you. It’s as if some of you think that Muslims are sitting around waiting for some excuse to have a riot.

    Let’s look at this honestly. At the height of the Danish cartoon controversy, how many Muslims rioted violently? Or rather, what proportion of Muslims? Was it 20%? 30%? Does anyone have any accurate figures?

    We hear so much about Muslim extremism. Name me one Muslim country that has elected the Islamic equivalent of the BJP to rule their nation.

    Others say that a Muslim who is true to his or her faith must enforce the punishment for apostasy. Really? Why?

    As a Muslim, my understanding of the sharia law of apostasy is that it only applies in the context of treason. And I am not the only one who understands it in this way.

    Further, as a Muslim living in a non-Muslim country (I am from Australia), certain aspects of sharia (e.g. hudood) have no jurisdiction over my life. In fact, sharia itself forbids me from imposing hudood and other forms of criminal laws and punishments commonly associated with sharia.

    So if a Muslim wants to abandon Islam and attack the Koran in Australia, they are free to do so. If I am to follow my religion truly and properly, I should leave that person alone. I am free to criticise their choice but I am not to threaten them or in any other way to break the law.

    Hirsi Ali came to Sydney a few months back. Not a single Muslim made any threats. Yes, Muslim people criticised her. That is their right. But she travelled around Sydney quite freely.

    In fact, I even interviewed her for an Australian e-zine called NewMatilda.com. The product of that interview was this article …

    http://madhabirfy.blogspot.com/2007/08/unreliable-narrator.html

  • dodo

    @Irfan,

    1. Let’s look at this honestly. At the height of the Danish cartoon controversy, how many Muslims rioted violently? Or rather, what proportion of Muslims? Was it 20%? 30%? Does anyone have any accurate figures?

    I have. It is 93%. If you have any other number, prove that ( This answer follows the logic of your question).

    2. We hear so much about Muslim extremism. Name me one Muslim country that has elected the Islamic equivalent of the BJP to rule their nation.

    Not one of them. The muslim countries which can elect government have elected people who are much more dogmatic than the BJP is ( remember BNP’s alliance with former rajakars in the last Bangladesh government, Iran’s presidential election ( if you call that election at all.LOL) , even in Turkey, JDP has come to power).

    And about the countries where there is no election, less said about their secularism is better.

    BTW, are we getting an inkling here regarding the effect of the proposed export scheme?

  • http://bachodi.wordpress.com bachodi

    “…since when have non-Muslims come to be governed by Islamic laws in their non-Islamic societies?…”

    Beats me too.

    Excellent read sir , thanks for this

  • http://planetirf.blogspot.com Irfan

    dodo, what evidence do you have that 93% of all 1.2 billion Muslims across the world engaged in violent protest in response to the Danish cartoons? Did you conduct any surveys? What was your survey methodology? What was the size of your sampling? How much margin of error did you allow for?

    You mention the Turkish AKP government. Are you telling me that the AKP were involved in anything resembling Gujrat in 2002? Did AKP officials hand out names and addresses of minority homes and properties so that these could be torched? Does the AKP have a paramilitary force similar to the RSS? Has any AKP leader shown admiration for Adolf Hitler?

  • http://lifeandsomething.blogspot.com/ Gaurav

    Is this Irfan guy for real ?
    True there is no BJP like parties in Islamic nations, the correct comparision should be Nazis and fascists.
    It is unbelievable that he has the cheeks to give lessons to Hindus, please go and see what they have done to Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh.
    Bloody hypocrite.

  • asad mustafa rizvi

    Atanu said:

    By the way, if you are offended by my position, do send me a link to your writings where you protested the call for murder of writers and cartoonists by an Indian Muslim minister of the government, send me where you opposed the banning of books by the government of India, where you opposed the division of Indian society through religion-based discrimination, etc. I will entertain your objections. Otherwise stuff it you know where.

    I do not know whether to call it height of ignorance or height of arrogance!

    For the record, please visit my comments and comments of many other muslims on Indian Muslim blog on the issue of Taslima Nasrin and numerous other issues:

    http://indianmuslims.in/freedom-of-expression-freedom-of-silence/

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  • Ashish

    Very well said freind but these people(islamic mentality) are getting back with interest and they will face hellfire in year to come for all there exteremism.

  • anonymous coward

    @Irfan

    How many Muslim majority countries are democracies in first place? The Palestinians elected the Hamas. Since when did RSS become a paramilitary force? What rights do religious minorities enjoy in Muslim majority countries ? We just need to look at the decreasing population of Hindus in Bangladesh and Pakistan.

  • http://indianmuslims.in Mohib

    Atanu:

    Just FYI.

    Against the ban of The Satanic Verses:
    http://indianmuslims.in/the-salmanic-verses-knighthood-for-salman-rushdie/

    Against the assault on Taslima Nasreen:
    http://indianmuslims.in/lajja-taslima-nasreen-assaulted-in-hyderabad/

    Danish Cartoon Controversy:
    http://indianmuslims.in/so-the-danish-cartoonist-was-burnt-alive/

    Against Imam Bukhari:
    http://indianmuslims.in/look-whos-talking/
    http://indianmuslims.in/syed-ahmed-bukhari-there-he-goes-again/

    Varanasi Blasts in Hanuman Temple:
    http://indianmuslims.in/politics-of-hit-and-hate/

    Against the 50 Crore Award:
    http://indianmuslims.in/up-minister-promises-rs-51-crore-for-cartoonists-head/

    And these are just my posts. There are many more at the blog by other authors on these issues and more.

    Thanks,
    Mohib

  • jv

    I am sick of this Hirsi Ali. She is getting a large play in the U.S. because (1) she is articulate, (2) she is young and, reasonably trim and fit Somali immigrant, (3) Westerners (who are shallow) have special agenda to fling people such as her around because she serves the agenda of non-muslims in uncle-Tomish way and (4)she is good and shrewd to attract publicity (to make a living) by catering to her masters in the West. Her constant mantra ” Beware of muslims” suits the uneducated of the West quite well. There is money in this maha-mantra if you are a shallow Muslim and don’t have any other means to make a lucrative living.
    (Why aren’t people like Azim Premji and APK Kalam more popular internationally instead of publicity hounds and intellectual pygmies like Hirsi?)

    There are tens of thousands of muslims doctor, surgeons, lawyers, intellectuals, journalists, and professionals who are moderate and yet muslim in their own way. Unfortunately, they do not hog the media as Ms. Hirsi Ali because they are not dramatic or controversial like her.

    Ms. Hirsi Ali’s sole qualification (despite her so called endearing life story to Westerners), i sto make stupid, and shallow comments reflecting complete lack of wisdom. She is an anti-muslim crasader in her own way – because thats how she makes her lucrative living.

    Any “Muslim gone-bad” (like girls gone wild) is very tantalizing to any stupid crowd of Westerners.

    By the way I am a Hindu.

  • Zenil

    “By the way, if you are offended by my position, do send me a link to your writings where you protested the call for murde..”

    I am not.. I find this post very funny..

    If you know so much about Islam how come you missed these:

    1)Islam promotes a wide egalitarian spirit. I can go to any mosque anywhere in the world and i can pray. There’s no uppercaste/dalit mosque. My economic/social status disappears as soon as I enter the mosque.
    And there’s no separate “queue/darshan” for VIP’s.

    2)Only religion that makes it obligatory for its followers to pay yearly a % of their earning to the poor.

    3)Only religion to codify laws to give equality and inheritance to women. Infact compared to the Inidan system muslim men are required to give dowry to get married. And Islam did it long before there were feminists/liberalists/western democracys..

    4)Only religion that makes it obligatory for its followers to dedicate a whole month every year of their adult life in fasting ,prayer and alms giving to show solidarity with the less fortunate.

    So you are partly right..Islam is a unique religion in terms of its spirit. But some people simply dont “get” it!!
    Why dont you read/investigate a bit more on Islam before foaming at the mouth. Or may be show some balance .
    Islam’s the fastest growing religion in the world NOW(with no sword to support it!!!).

  • san

    Islam promotes a wide egalitarian spirit. I can go to any mosque anywhere in the world and i can pray. There’s no uppercaste/dalit mosque. My economic/social status disappears as soon as I enter the mosque.
    And there’s no separate “queue/darshan”
    .

    Broher Zenil. If there is no uppercaste/dalit mosque in Islam then why did Pakistani Muslims create their own mosque in Dubai and other cities in the Middle East? Why were they not satisfied with Arab mosques? Why do Sunnis never set foot on Shia mosques and vice-versa? And why are women not allowed entry in mosques?

    Only religion that makes it obligatory for its followers to pay yearly a % of their earning to the poor.

    Why do people scramble to withdraw money from their accounts in Pakistani banks just before this “obigatory donation”?

    Only religion to codify laws to give equality and inheritance to women. Infact compared to the Inidan system muslim men are required to give dowry to get married. And Islam did it long before there were feminists/liberalists/western democracys..

    The less is said about this the better it is.

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  • Bhaskar Chatterjee

    I support Atanu’s position over Nitin’s.

    What we see/call as Indigeneous Islam is a intermediate step in the whole Islamization process. Depending on so many factors- social, economic, political etc, Islamization takes few decades (in case of Arabs) to 100s of years (in case of Bangladesh)/

    In anthropological sense, religion means peoples understanding of Higher and lesser God(s). Islam cannot change people from many Gods to a single God(Allah) just by converting somebody to Islam on a single day. It needs elaborate mechanism to handle the transition and its traces can be found in literary, folk culture.

    There are three stages of Islamization: Inclusion. Identification. Displacement

    Goal of Islam is to replace Hindu High/Lesser Gods to one Islamic God Allah.

    To do that, they first include Islamic lesser Gods with Hindu God(s). Then, they identify which one is superior/inferior. And ultimately replace the Hindu high God/Lesser Gods with Islamic Allah. You can find a great analysis of this process in Richard Eaton’s “Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier”. Being a Bengali, I could understand detailed literary evidence cited by Eaton.

  • Bhaskar Chatterjee

    WHAT WE CALL AS INDIGENEOUS ISLAM IS JUST INCLUSION OR IN SOME CASES IDENTIFICATION STAGE. Ultimately, these Hindu ‘corruptions’ will be thrown out when the political, economic, social interests are ripe.

    Look at Kashmir’s Islam. It will tell us about what’s the ultimate Goal of Islam.

    Or look at Bangladesh. Indonesia where we are told Mosques were built with Hindu Gods at the outer wall, Gates. Those were examples of Inclusion – the first step of Islamization. However, NO MOSQUES ARE BUILT IN INDONESIA WITH HINDU ICONS AT ITS GATES THESE DAYS:)-

    Neither any Muslim from Bangladesh reads Pir’s Stories which they used to do even few decades back prior to Wahabi Islam’s spread there.

  • Bhaskar Chatterjee

    Atanu’s comments on “Islam being perfect religion” is CORRECT.

    Tom Friedman has touched this topic after Kafeel’s two failed terror attepmt.

    http://freedemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/thomas-l-friedman-at-theater-near-you.html

    “Two trends are at work here: humiliation and atomization. Islam’s self-identity is that it is the most perfect and complete expression of God’s monotheistic message, and the Koran is God’s last and most perfect word. To put it another way, young Muslims are raised on the view that Islam is God 3.0. Christianity is God 2.0. Judaism is God 1.0. And Hinduism and all others are God 0.0.”

    “One of the factors driving Muslim males, particularly educated ones, into these acts of extreme, expressive violence is that while they were taught that they have the most perfect and complete operating system, every day they’re confronted with the reality that people living by God 2.0., God 1.0 and God 0.0 are generally living much more prosperously, powerfully and democratically than those living under Islam. This creates a real dissonance and humiliation. How could this be? Who did this to us? The Crusaders! The Jews! The West! It can never be something that they failed to learn, adapt to or build. This humiliation produces a lashing out.”

  • Bhaskar Chatterjee

    Somebody wrote Islam promotes Equality!

    Its biggest Joke. Nowhere in Islamic texts, they spoke about Equality TILL THE ADVENT OF FRENCH REVOLUTION.

    It was always “true religion vesus False”.

  • krish

    JV,
    I admire Hirsi Ali. She has the guts and the courage to stand up against a set of principles which she despises but which the a vast number of people hold dear. For having taken such a stand, her colleague was murdered, she is under a death threat. It is easy to despise her for sounding like a broken record.
    You say – She is an anti-muslim crusader in her own way – because thats how she makes her lucrative living.
    I would make the distinction that Atanu makes – She is an anti-Islam crusader and yes she makes a lucrative living under the shadow of death threat.

  • Tanaji

    “We muslims were the legal rulers of India”.
    Ha. Before that, the Hindus were the legal rulers, the Muslims invaded by force. If the English had returned India to the Muslims, they would in turn have had to return it to the Hindus. The English took the shortcut and directly returned it to the Hindus.

    Jan pines for the golden Mughal period. Sorry, 1 billion Hindus dont.

  • http://idlinginc.blogspot.com/ Mischievous Ignoramus

    Alternate explanation:

    “So before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world. And all of us against the infidel.”–Leon Uris, _The Haj_ (1984)

    There is a hierarchy of enemies. First, all muslims against the infidels. Once the infidels are eliminated, we go down to the next level, that is between different sects (assuming sects is the right word for Sunni, Shia, etc). And so on and so forth. This algorithm reminds of parsing trees, however, I don’t know which one they use preorder or postorder.

    Muslims in India are still working at level 1, eliminate all muslims. In this phase, it is common to see sects multiply, coz the environment allows it. Hence we have 13 sects. This is normal and expected behaviour. Give muslims some time before jumping to conclusions that India Islam is different.

  • NotSure

    If islam was egalitarian,
    why wouldnt the word of god be revealed in chinese(which even at that time was the largest spoken and written language at its time of creation.
    If it was why is mecca the mecca not any or every other place.
    If it was egalitarian why would it be offended by apostates?
    If it was egalitarian why would it distinguish between kuffars, people of the book and idoltars be involved in dhimmitude.
    If it was egalitarian why would women be treated horribaly in muslim societies?
    Islam has sealed itself shut and cant it literaly sees the world as darul harb or darul islam. Islam should be shut out b/c its not reciprocal to any one.
    Take the recent incident in US where some one left a kuran in the toilet.
    He was charged with hate crime. The only crime he did was stealing that kuran.
    If he had bought it there wouldnt be a crime.
    Watch hitchens on this issue
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=X0SD7sgs-6g

  • Zenil

    To some of the comments in no particular order

    1)Sunni/Shia are sects. They differ in their interpretations of Quran. And in some places they really hate each other. They re NOT castes. There is no upper/lower in them. So get your facts right!! I stand by what i say. I can go to any mosque anywhere in the world and pray regardless of which sect I follow.

    2)There are more than 10 million missing baby girls in India,lots of them buried alive. Add to that dowry deaths,bride burning.So if there’s any country that treats women like shit thats India.And 80% of Indian population is Hindu. So make your own conclusions. Please show me any such figure in any Arab society.

    3)Arabic and not Chinese because thats what it is.Come on!! God’s got to choose one language!! And Arabs not equal to Islam. Can you come up with something more worthwhile..

    4)Islam promotes equality. Why don’t u read a bit before shooting your mouth off..Arab societies may be regressive. No different from Indian societies. No point in blaming Islam for it.

    5)There are open and closed societies in the muslim world. Take Malaysia. Its a majority muslim country with temples(a very famous Hanuman temple promoted as a tourist attraction) and churches and unlike Indians they don’t crib about being secular. And they actively promote their minority tamil brothers. And there are those at the other extreme(Saudi) and those that are in between(UAE..Freedom to pray is limited, but lots of Indians make good living AND are happy with it..)…

    So guys com out with something that has more meat in it!!

  • Ann

    I totally agree with the comment above.Some of you who have been having these slandered,shallow minded views on Islam just prove one thing-that you havent learnt well.

    There is NO religion other than Islam which gives women the most rights.Get your facts right.I can prove it.

    Islam teaches you to learn and learn until your death.It is said in the Quran.Islam is intellectual-its practical and knowledgable.Islam dislikes people who do not take the effort to be an intellectual or is negative.Try to be more optimistic and open minded,guys.

    Islam is all about being open minded.There are reasons for the protectiveness that is imposed on women,but if you have read the Quran, you probably woul have heard that men will be sinned if they didnt take care(includes knowledge,emotional and financial) and respect their women properly.

    It is the humans on this earth and media culprits who make everything look like a piece of crap.

    So instead of putting down a subject or finding the tiniest reason to give a bad name to a religion,I suggest you read and travel first before talking.

    May Allah bless you to give you more freedom of thinking.

    I do not want to talk or write too much because firstly the above comment by Zenil is well said and two,I feel that you guys need to learn first.

    Thank you very much.

  • dodo

    1. these slandered,shallow minded views on Islam just prove one thing-that you havent learnt well.

    Why one must learn Islam to actually undestand that what is being perpetrated by the followers of the religion is not what has been dictated by the religion? Why I should read, learn and understand Quran to actually acknowledge that your line of thought is not dangerous? Why your action can not prove that?
    Does any other religion demands such conformity or learning from the people to actually acknowledge it as not a destructive one?

    2.There is NO religion other than Islam which gives women the most rights.Get your facts right.I can prove it.

    We have seen Taliban. We are seeing Deobandis, Iran and what not ( in this case,Turkey is excluded). If you still think that they represent the zenith of women’s rights, then I can see the depth of your “learning”.

    3.Islam teaches you to learn and learn until your death.It is said in the Quran.Islam is intellectual-its practical and knowledgable.Islam dislikes people who do not take the effort to be an intellectual or is negative.Try to be more optimistic and open minded,guys.

    Open minded, of course. I can still remember the Bamiyan Budhdhas and what happened to them by the learned intellectual followers who epitomized open mindedness. We know about the camel races in the middle east which shows compassion of the great followers, we know how open minded Saudi Arabia is.

    4.Islam is all about being open minded.There are reasons for the protectiveness that is imposed on women,but if you have read the Quran, you probably woul have heard that men will be sinned if they didnt take care(includes knowledge,emotional and financial) and respect their women properly.

    Now the circular argument. Quran provides ultimate freedom to women. And the “protectiveness”( height of euphemism here, even the word suppresion falls short) towards women is justified because the Quran says so.

    5.It is the humans on this earth and media culprits who make everything look like a piece of crap.

    Yes, media is culprit , but your actions are not. Not when you assemble rage boys at the slightest ( often non-existent) of pretexts,not when your open minded followers bomb the shit out of innocent train passengers- making numerous orphans, not when the open minded followers butcher thousands of babies and children in Sudan, who are so terrified that they walk whole nights alone to escape from your intellectual followers, it is only media who are the only responsible!

    5.So instead of putting down a subject or finding the tiniest reason to give a bad name to a religion,I suggest you read and travel first before talking.

    Why everyone should read and learn this religion to understand that it is not a menace? Does any other language asks you to read its books first just to acknowledge that it is not a threat to humanity? It is the action of the followers that proves, and in this case almost all the actions we are afraid of have been taken on the behest of religion.

  • Uday

    “God-Fearing People” Why are we so scared of offending Muslims, by Christopher Hitchens

    http://slate.com/id/2171371/

  • http://perpendicularthought.blogspot.com shadows

    (I hope that it is clear that I am not a “Muslimophobe”—so back off with the outraged comments about “how dare you insult 1.5 billion Muslims”.) My hatred of an ideology is a reasoned response to what the ideology is. Other people can and do have different assessments of different ideologies and it is certainly not a crime (at least not yet in India) to hold differing opinions. So, yes, my opinion of Islam is no higher than Islam’s opinion of me.

    =============

    Atanu,

    islam does not have any opinions about you and me, its muslims who do !!

    Apart from the ideology, as people, Hindus are hated, as are the Jews, Christians and Buddhists…

  • http://perpendicularthought.blogspot.com shadows

    >> but if you have read the Quran, you probably woul have heard that men will be sinned if they didnt take care(includes knowledge,emotional and financial) and respect their women properly.

    You are absolutely right… THEIR women, not infidel women..

    >> Come on!! God’s got to choose one language!!

    LOL..

  • http://perpendicularthought.blogspot.com shadows

    Mohib,

    1. Look at the other muslim’s comments here on this thread.. more importantly, look at their logic and way of thinking, what they imply….

    now now now.. dont point out “Hindu fundamentalists” commenting here.. Hindu fundamentalism was born because of centuries of islamic oppression of India and as late as 20th century, it never had any reason to exist otherwise..

    2. Read the comments to your own blog.

    3. You *may* be liberal , but what about the other 99% who want islamic domination all over the world.

    4. Do passages with extreme views on womens rights, jehad and violence in Koran exist or not ? Or every other newspaper , magazine or blog in the world is lying about those offending stuff in the koran? If the offending poetic lines do exist, why is it not being reformed? All other faiths have evolved with the times.. but not Islam. It has a long long way to go.

    5. I have lot of points, but OK – granted that you have proved your point with those links you posted. But how many muslims think like you do ? Talk about numbers.. If you say many do, then the reality suggests something very different.

  • Zenil

    “have lot of points, but OK – granted that you have proved your point with those links you posted. But how many muslims think like you do ? Talk about numbers.. If you say many do, then the reality suggests something very different.”

    Shadows, which groups do you hang out with.. A large percentage of muslim population are in non english speaking countries. Do you hang out at community blogs maintained by indonesians,malasians or arabs?? Do u have access to their blogs?
    How are you so sure about the extremist views of muslims? Is there someting called a “muslim” fundi blog where u get your information? Or you read your information largely from a European/American media source? Lots of views that you have on muslims are defined by the groups you hang out with..So why dont uyou sek and find out muslim blogs and go through their views

  • Zenil

    Shadows..
    And I am really curious about the 99% that you say seek world domination…Where do you get that kind of crap from?? is it 99% of the “muslim” blogsphere or 99% of the muslims living in this world at larger?? If its the blogsphere which ones are you referring to?

  • Zenil

    Shadows..dedicated to you.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIsvsm9xgrg

  • Shahul
  • Notsure

    Zenil
    Regarding “And Arabs not equal to Islam.”
    then why do muslims get their panties in knots and say Kuran cant be translated.
    And more interestingly why are there are more indian/pigistani muslims pretending to be quraishis and of arab lineage.

    Why does islam threaten apostates with death, quite interesting example for Egalitarian.

    How come women cant marry 4 times and men can?
    Why do they have to cover their faces ?
    Where is a women mullah ?

    This is the same faith that created a dichotomy and egalitarian ideas like kuffrs , dar ul harb, jaziya.

    What kind of stupid argument is “God have to choose a language
    God by your arguement instantly made kuffrs out of chinese.
    Is God that stupid?
    or more likely the followers of a warlord.
    The same warlord who opportunistically could have prophecy.
    To any literate person its clear what Mohammad was doing, copying elements from Judaism, Christianity as well as preislamic arabia.

  • http://www.idonthaveoneyet.com Rick-Shaw

    wow wow wow… (i wanna go bow wow bow – but i don’t wanna wake my wife up right in the middle of the night)

    This is so interesting … I’ve been reading these comments for an hour now. The Original by Atanu did impress me, because his basic line of argument was not whether 99% Muslims or 77% Hindus are xenophobic, fundamentalist et cetera. what i gather is, besides many other things, what he was trying to say is that there is nothing like Indian Islam. Just as a conventional saying goes ‘no one can become a Hindu…’ , we can not have Indian Islam, Saudi Arabian Islam, Mexican Islam. We can have Muslims – Danish, French, and maybe Antartican.

    I also liked someone who said that ‘why must one read in order to understand Islam.. and why not the followers be a model of whats contained within the precepts of what they follow… indeed, a normal individual can’t do all that academic reading. One sees more visible signs… fatwas, terror attacks, suicide bombers, thrashing writers.. and all these things create an opinion.

    when i used to hear all these sardarji jokes during my school days, and didn’t have any surd friend, I almost believed that each and every sardar is a stupid person. This changed only when I interacted with and made good friends with many of them.. and also when I gained more awareness about the ilks of Manmohan Singh and countless other.

    There may be say x% of Muslims who perpetrate violence or believe in the ideology of extremism. That x% could differ country to country… and family to family. Obviously there would be x% minus others at the same time, who are not visible – - because they don’t like shouting on the streets, or simply because they are too busy reading and responding to blogs like us!

    Islam is simple – it asks you to surrender to one supreme god, regards Muhammad as his apostle, pray, fast, do charity to the needy, and if possible go for Haj. These are the basic most things from Allah. The rest are from humans. How relevant the human-engineered variations are today is anyone’s guess because those who made those laws/rules are extinct now, and so is the societies that they lived in. The times have changed and a huge number of Muslims have recreated their own ‘Middle Path’ amidst the chaotic modern life – and they are very much Muslim.

    The fact remains that India has one of the exemplary co-existence of diversity, not just because of Muslims and Hindus, but plethora of other religions, sects, tribes, etc. Nitin’s remarks may not have been meant to be taken so literally I guess (I’m taking the liberty of making a comment on something I’ve not gone through, but thats what I could intelligently guess… please correct me if I’m wrong), but Atanu’s taking on it was good in a way that it triggered and incited such tremendous reactions and interest.

    Lets be honest. No one is a Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Parsi (this is what I believe). What if I were born among Aghoras? Wouldn’t I be relishing human flesh? Lets not fool ourselves by branding each other extremist, ignorant, supercillious… thats how it has been happening until now, and see where have we reached.

    I like Hinduism (I am a Muslim). Almost all of my friends are Hindus. I have lived in India since my birth, have never imagined what would I be if not an Indian. I know many Muslims who are like me.

    But I know many others who are not like me. They live among themselves (read Muslims), hardly have any friends outside their community, no interaction with the diversity that India offers to them. There is a huge number of such people in India.

    For them, it is them and others. The fact is well documented that Muslims are among the poorest of the poor in India. Typically barbers, tailors, rickshaw pullers, mechanics grace the Who’s Who of the community. Their sense of family planning is nil. They get married.. and there you go.. the rahmat from Allah in annual installments starts pouring in.

    Many of them can only afford food and basic living. Some can’t do even that. If at all they go to school, they can only go to free madrasas, which are based on religious outlay. even well to do muslims are relatively well to do. a large section of muslim families can only afford to send their kids to madrasas.

    That is where it starts.. the ‘us’ and ‘them’ phenomenon. Yet, in India it has not been a malignant phenomenon, barring a few freak cases where madrasas were found to be harboring some unsolicited outlaws (read extremists)… madrasas simply teach quran (only learning by heart usually).. the understanding and interpretation of quran happens only after schooling. Basic tenets of islam are taught.

    what madrasa education generally lacks is vision. it just imparts education to muslims and not to Indians. only a few madrasa have begun to realize that. The point to ponder is that a part of india, a huge human pool, is just lying dormant. In their lifetime, what they do is learn quran, religious stuff and then become caretaker of a mosque and live their lives. and there are thousands and thousands of such people, the Indians, who could otherwise would have participated in the growth of the country.

    They make this choice because they have no other choice. Muslims who can afford send their kids to best schools. They let them do whatever. They live life their way. Their is no fatwa, no hue and cry. But finances don’t allow this luxury to a majority of muslims.

    Of course there maybe a few Kafeels, but there are destructive minds everywhere. Some would chose to call him martyr. i would term them crazy.

    Hope all i said made sense. it is my first comment to any blog. after reading so many views, i was really charged up. please ignore any factual, actual, or imagined errors ;o)

    cheers!

  • Er. Nusrat Ali (ex-muslim)

    Niether Islam should be imported nor it should be exported,it has to be abolished lock stock for the well being of humanity.More or less every relegion has draw backs but others admitt it and try to improve it where as Islam try to strengthen it and repeat it with more violence.Islam also uses it as politics, as Christianity uses missionary(conversion) works in other countries. Bible has been reformed and lot of christian ppl speak and write openly against Pope-Church-Bibel but no muslim can dare to speak&write openly against Mohammad-Koran-Sunnah.Many many ayats of koran teach looting,violence,rape,revenge,burning,deceiving,che
    ating,murdering etc but no muslim is sincere enough to accept it.Only Salman Rushdi called it;SATNIC VERSES in a hidden way.look,what happened to him.
    Fact is that ISLAM IS A CLOSED IDEAOLOGY detrimental to humanity and world peace.It is a black hole from where nothing can come out.
    It will not allow muslims to think/write/speak freely. Islam will never allow muslims to liberate themselves
    from its evil clutches.But lately we have
    a very bleak ray of hope now. The hard shell of islam has started cracking from within.There are some groups of muslims who have started speaking & writing the evil side of Koran & islam openly. So the bitter truths about Mohammad+Koran+Hadith have started coming out of the very horse’s mouth itself. Ayan Hirsi,Wafa Sultana,Ali Zina,Basharee Mortadd,Meher Ali Khan,Ehsaan Jami, Abu Kasem,Dr.Amil Imani,Shiekh Plazzi, dr.Walid Phares etc. Similarly there are lot of Anti-Islam sites which expose openly the evil side of Islam &koran,run by enlightened muslims themselves of various countries.One of them is faithfreedom.org.Pl. you must read it
    to know more of Islam & Koran,and its inherent TAQQIYAH.These intelligent organisings and truth lovers are trying very hard to bring a thought revolution in muslims so as to liberate them from Islam.
    But it will take a long time.That is the tregedy.

  • Er.Nusrat Ali (ex-muslim)

    Dear Atanu.sorry, how last 10 lines of my post has been mared ?

  • http://www.reformislam.org Muslims Against Sharia

    Muslims Against Sharia Poll:
    Does Islam Need to Be Reformed?

  • preordain

    if you people say islam has so many drawbacks
    then why EX-hindu engineers and doctors are accepting it??

    i personally know one MBBS student of KMC manipal who lost one academic year as he announced his acceptance of Islam to his parents
    and one engineer at honeywell who has become a well practising muslim

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