please start sending at least 3 sms and 3 emaiuls to all poiticians – you may get their email ids on government websites.

let us flood them with hate and shame.

There is NO example of even 1 institution whose standard has deteriorated due to reservation for backward classes. If that was so, then christian institutions and the community should have been of a really poor quality considering the amount of reservation they have!

But yes, the creamy-layer argument stands as if this continues, the aim of uplifting the community as a whole will not be achieved.
So whaat we need is a streamlining of the policies and not abandoning the reservation concept itself.
Thaank you

These questions are just to sidetrack, deliberately or otherwise, the real issue.

The point is that there is a set of criteria today for gaining entrance to a course. Whether you call it ‘merit’ or anything else is irrelevant. Perhaps, ‘merit’ is a misnomer. But so what?

The objection is that by whatever name you call these criteria which are there, there is a proposal that a set of students e.g. belonging to OBC, will not be subject to the same set of criteria. THAT is the ral objection. It has nothing to do with how you define ‘merit’ and your own personal opinion of what ‘merit’ should mean.

What the protestors are rightly saying is that the criteria for selection (or “merit” defined correctly by someone who knows how to define it) should be the same for everyone. Just because someone is from OBC does not justify him bypassing the criteria when, for example, a non-OBC from a similar background would have to face those selection criteria.

So let’s not get carried away by lofty ideas of definition. Just talk of the substance, please.

These questions are just to sidetrack, deliberately or otherwise, the real issue.

The point is that there is a set of criteria today for gaining entrance to a course. Whether you call it ‘merit’ or anything else is irrelevant. Perhaps, ‘merit’ is a misnomer. But so what?

The objection is that by whatever name you call these criteria which are there, there is a proposal that a set of students e.g. belonging to OBC, will not be subject to the same set of criteria. THAT is the ral objection. It has nothing to do with how you define ‘merit’ and your own personal opinion of what ‘merit’ should mean.

What the protestors are rightly saying is that the criteria for selection (or “merit” defined correctly by someone who knows how to define it) should be the same for everyone. Just because someone is from OBC does not justify him bypassing the criteria when, for example, a non-OBC from a similar background would have to face those selection criteria.

So let’s not get carried away by lofty ideas of definition. Just talk of the substance, please.

First of all the merit should be given utmost importance for the prosperity of the country. The root of the problem is at the basic infrastructure for the people who want to study rather than their entry into higher education.
One time a person who has got only one question correct out of 200 questions in the entrance test was given admission to medical college because he was from a backward community denying seat for a merit student. If the same person who got the seat by reservation was lucky enough to secure a seat in cardiology through reservation, would our cabinet & central ministers dare to get operated by him incase of emergency or heart attack?
If a person is economically backward and is eager to go for higher studies, Government , Banks or any other financial institutions should provide interest free loans to such people, and encourage them to help few more like them, once they get into jobs. This way there is a positive spin in the growth of all. An uplifted person helping underprivileged helps the society progress together.

Why did not politicians like arjun singh recommend to have 27% reservations for OBCs in Loksabha and Rajyasabha? Only because they dont want to loose their seats and they feel education is a toy to play with.

I recommend to remove the existing reservations altogether from every place.

Regards,
Indian

It’s practical to correct the historic blunder done by upper caste Indians.
and do not forget that India is a country having hundreds of castes and religions.

Its perfectly ok if Govt is trying to correct the past mistakes.All underpriviledged sections should have right to education and Job.
Its not a property of certain affluent sections like marwaris,sindhis,Bramhins etc..

Such reservation system exists in Norway and in USA also.

Have a open heart to understand the problem!

Best Regards,

Raj

Soon it will not be a case of mere discrimination against legitimate fundamental rights of so called upper cast citizens, but a case of PERSECUTION. Hitler had started the same way dividing German society and started a drift that changed the course of world history.

Does parliamentary democracy in India mean that bunch of politicians can kill the legitimate and fundamental rights of a certain section of society and start depriving them?

The constitution of India as it stands now, has lost the ability to protect rights of people who are being persecuted by the state on the basis of cast and religion -i.e. so called upper castes and Hindus!

Is it not the time for petitioning the issue in UNHRC? Is it also not a time to start applying to foreign consulates and demand political asylum on the ground of persecution by the state?

Beware world! If situation deteriorates in India by the action of screwed up Indian politicians then the whole world will suffer due to massive migration of people form India.

I would like to put my points regarding the ongoing quota system debate.

Is reservation good or bad ? A debate that is never going to end. People who are going to be benefitted will surely support and people who are loosing will oppose it.

India is a big country and many people live below poverty line. And it’s good (???)that government is trying to help the needly people ( I don’t know whether govt is really helping the people in a true sense or not).

But has government thought about Pros and Cons of this movement ?? I have doubt. I think this is all a politically motivated propaganda.

Government is not at all serious about helping people. Reservation is not going to help people in anyway because the people who need reservation are not able to use that.

If govt. really want to help people then govt should try to reduce corruption. If corruption is reduced than people having higher income will not be able to take certificates by bribing. (Infact, i have seen people misusing the quota system..)

Govt.should try to reduce their wages and should put a limit on their spendings.

It is a shame on govt that it is criticizing the knowlege commision recommendations. (Then why at all have a knowledge commission ??).

It is good to put efforts to improve conditions of needly people. But that should not be politically motivated.

It is really bad to see that people from that category are not opposing ( I am not saying that if it is good then also you should oppose. they are not doing any neutral analysis). Govt. is trying to divide the nation now on the basis of caste..India had to pay a lot because of castism..( Even britishers had divided india on the basis of religion) Why politicians of india not learning from the past mistakes ??

Try to uplift people but not on the basis of caste ?? India will be divided, And we know .

United we stand, Divided we fall..

we have to first decide, What india wants ??

Are you aware of the 100% reservation that had been around for centuries for the higher strata of the society? You must be dreaming when you say that merit itself would suffice. I see so many undeserving brahmins get into the educational system either by influence his/her high-class relatives or by paying their way through mostly possible due to the unjustly acquired wealth by their forefathers.

Recent decrease in the gap between the marks of 1st person in the open merit list versus marks of 1st person in SC/ST merit list confirms your statement that they are not intrinsically inferior.

- Abdul

I agree with all of your views.
Why don’t these stinking politicos reserve 50% seats in the parliament,ministeries,delegations and other such stuff.
I have an even better idea.
Why don’t we reserve 50 % of our air,water ,land, forests etc. for SCs,STs and OBCs.
what about 50 % of wbsites,forums and blogs?
Is Mr Arjun Sing listening?

but if education(and by implication, merit too) is in itself a privileged commodity, what then is the answer to unmeritocratic practices of the government? though i am not convinced about the reservations itself, i am not sure if the solution of the reservations itself is as flawed as its made to look.

I completely agree with you that increasing the supply of education will in one fell swoop solve the problem of disproportionate representation while at the same time keeping the pro-meritwallahs happy.

My thoughts are also here: http://snipurl.com/q9ng, in case you are interested.)

I, too, think that dividing people based on caste, race, etc is crap. But if India is soaked in such a system for a long time and if the easiest way to help people is to play the same game, then, why not?

I too believe on similar lines. Otherwise, why chattisgarh could come up with “40 private universities” in a span of very short time. I accept that, they were under quality institutes but then when the number increases, then quality would become the major issue. Which essentially mean: people want as many as institutes to come-up and they are ready to pay for quality education.

And then, in regards of primary education, Kerala did good things by increasing competetion by giving straightly scholarships to children, and subsidy in transport. Even in the case of primary education, poor ready to spend money.

Coming to Atanu’s mantra that we should be concerned about causes not the symptoms: in the case of today’s medical system as well, we are always very much bothered about symptoms but not the causes. On a surprising note, we prefer this and dont prefer ayurvedic system which chases the causes. Is this due to mass psyche?

Raja

Staying in bangalore, come various elections, the government and the kannada brigade go into overdrive in asserting that kannada will stay as the primary medium of education for primary schools(probably even secondary ones.)
Now this is fine, if kannada was the only language utilized at the govt and private sector. Fortunately/unfortunately that is not the case. But since the kannada brigade(kb) is so vocal and the govt so beholden for votes to such people, it is the kids of the lower classes that suffer the consequences. The kids of the kb and decision makers go to english medium schools and care a damn about what happens in the govt schools. So for roughly 5-7 years, you have students whose main language of communication is kannada and they only start their english language quest in grades 5 or above. As far as I know, there is no engineering school of repute in karnataka that teaches in kannada. So you have the govt that shackles public school students by imposing on them a language that is not useful to them in higher education. Next comes the question of infrastructure. As you stated, the govt is meddling in higher education when primary education is where it should be concentrating its energies on. So many schools do even adequate infrastructure, nobody else but the govt is at fault for not providing this in the first place. The govt might be aiming to help such students through reservations but they only block seats that can be utilized for more meritorious students. Students who do manage to graduate from such schools are inadequately prepared for the level of competition and rigorousness that city level and private school students go through.

I’ll leave with an article(now behind a password) from the Business Standard website.

The taxi, a Volkswagen Santana, weaves in and out of thick traffic, switching between the main throughfares and bylanes of Beijing. The driver is concentrating on the road, but only somewhat. From the backseat, Laxman C Hemnani is issuing a stream of instructions. And directions. We arrive at our destination. Prakash hands out the fare and thanks the driver. The entire conversation was in fluent Chinese.

Hemnani is the China head of IT training company Aptech, known locally as Aptech Baida Jade Bird Company. Sitting in his offices in the Haidian District in north-west Beijing, Hemnani explains how the IT training industry works in China.

First, a comparison. In India, Aptech, like NIIT and others, function on the fringe of the state-run education sector. In China, Aptech has a 50:50 joint venture with a Chinese company (Jade Bird). Moreover, Beijing University (called Baida) has a stake in Jade Bird. So, unlike India, where IT education and by extension firms like Aptech operate from the periphery, in China, the government seeks them out and embraces them totally. A Beijing University tag is precious to most Chinese students.

Then promoter of Aptech, Atul Nishar (he sold it to IT-training firm SSI), recalls how, after some correspondence, the China minister for science & technology visited India and his office. This was Mumbai and the year 1999. On most days, the area around Nishar’s office in Andheri (E) in north Mumbai is jammed with a constant cacophony of traffic. The air is dusty and thick with diesel smoke. This part of Mumbai is also host to hundreds of engineering workshops. And increasingly some IT companies.

Nishar says he walked into his boardroom expecting to meet with the minister and a few aides. “I was shocked. There were 20 Chinese sitting there,” he recalls. Nishar says his shock turned into amazement when the minister said he would visit a few IT training centres himself. Which he did subsequently. “I didn’t expect him to actually visit a centre,” admits Nishar.

The minister began by saying they wanted Aptech to come to China and “help with development”. The deal was signed only later. Nishar says options were a 100% subsidiary or partnering with the government. “We chose the latter. We signed a joint venture with the ministry of science & technology, which in turn assigned the venture to a company called Jade Bird.”

In five years, Aptech has set up over 200 training schools in 57 different Chinese cities. The joint venture, according to the China Centre for Information Industry Development had 19% of China’s IT training market in 2005, up from around 15% in 2004. The business itself is growing close to 20% annually with total billings at $40 million. Pramod Khera, CEO, Aptech, says they now want to build an education content development “factory” in China. “We are thinking of taking the JV public in a year’s time,” he says.

At the Haidian centre, close to Hemnani’s office in Beijing, some 2,000 students have enrolled for either a two-year degree or a one-year network administrator’s course. Hemnani explains they also work with individual colleges and universities directly. “When it comes to English and IT, they are empowered to tie up with companies like us,” he adds. Not quite the case in India. I ask Hemnani about this apparent contradiction in approach. He thinks about it but refuses to be drawn in. “It’s a little different here, I guess,” he says.

Little is an understatement. Aptech is not just running IT-training classes through franchisees, it is also re-designing curriculum for several universities. In India, Aptech would possibly be shooed away from the gates of Delhi or Mumbai University for even suggesting something like this.

The curriculum replacement model is fascinating. Aptech plugs its two-year course into a three-year university degree in computer science. At the end, students sit for Aptech and University exams and get twin degrees. Some 50 colleges have opted for this model. The teachers are trained by Aptech. And it’s the University, not the students, that pays Aptech.

What are the lessons here? Before that, there may be many reasons why Indian universities are not joining hands with private education firms, Indian or overseas. Most may be legitimate. But the Chinese do hold their universities close to their heart. And nowhere is there talk of a foreign hand destabilising the education system.

To use Nishar’s words, the Chinese are a determined bunch. In information technology in specific and lots of other areas in general. As the Chinese minister’s visit demonstrated. Nishar says he still can’t imagine collaborating with government-owned universities in India in this manner. “Government bodies are wary. Maybe in airports or some companies, but not quite education,” he says.

Nishar says the other lesson is that in China, the government is a good partner. “They enable you and enhance your presence; they are not a hinderance.” But the important thing is this. “They begin by asking whether it will help China as a country. Will it help meet with objectives? Is it in their interest?” And then they work from there.

Nishar today marvels about a new road out of Shanghai which will cut travelling time to Hangzhou. This is one of the places he is considering taking his IT services company Hexaware. But as he also realises, his former company’s success in China had very little to do with roads and airports. Or the China infrastructure story.

Govindraj Ethiraj / Mumbai March 21, 2006

It appears more like a “What-to-do” solution rather than a “How-to-do” since the issue of how to remove the “motivation” to rob Peter to pay Paul remains open. Hence eagerly waiting for the proposed solution to the underlying problem. I admire the genius of Richard Stallman in coming up with the Copyleft precisely because of that. One way, as it appears to me, is to use the strategy of the Buddha, when he preached in the local languages. I often wonder about the feasibility though.

Warm Regards.

This is mostly for the readers of this blog:

Ignorance leads policy makers to believe that by imposing a price-ceiling, a more equitable distribution of resources will be obtained.

Some people don’t understand the *fundamental* easily, the above is the Fundamental Problem and all the problems/issues like Reservation, Joblessness, Poverty, No Infrastructure and every other problem is an elaboration/affirmation of the above problem.

Another good article that has Fundamentals is: http://ccsindia.org/people_kr_indiaagenda.asp


The US pursues the politics of wealth creation and India pursues the politics of wealth redistribution. In the absence of national wealth, India redistributes poverty and stays poor while the US gets richer and richer.



In essence the relentless pursuit of productivity gains is at the heart of US prosperity and the mindless emphasis on preserving jobs is at the heart of Indian poverty.


Please do note that Atanu has stressed on the same in most articles, please browse through the archives.

Once someone understands the fundamental problem, with the help of a few examples from Atanu, like this current article and some older ones, people can start thinking for themselves, do the analysis like the maestro and ask the right questions that will contribute to the body of analysis/knowledge, instead of asking questions that might not necessarily lead to what Atanu wants to do – Deesha -> Setting the direction for a better India.

My goal is to learn from the master and improve upon (if possible!) to reach meaningful conclusions which will make me ACT, with the right direction. Like Atanu said, understanding the problem is extremely imporant. The solution lies within the problem and not outside. One can act without understanding the problem, but it would be futile and the effort would lead to inconsequential and insignificant improvements. Atanu sets the direction (of the path) and I have to implement it!

Warmest Regards,
JP.