Comments on: Thoughts on Freedom of Expression http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/ Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:41:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Atanu Dey on India’s Development » Why Free Speech http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-95994 Atanu Dey on India’s Development » Why Free Speech Mon, 26 Mar 2007 04:11:06 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-95994 [...] s and movies. That is purely idiotic and if I dare say extremely evil. [Related posts: Thoughts on the Freedom of Expression. On Being an Armchair Intellectual. [...] [...] s and movies. That is purely idiotic and if I dare say extremely evil. [Related posts: Thoughts on the Freedom of Expression. On Being an Armchair Intellectual. [...]

]]> By: srikanth Godavarthi http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-15203 srikanth Godavarthi Tue, 16 May 2006 12:15:22 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-15203 I totally disagree with you when you said “In India, the freedom of expression is severely curtailed. The government is deathly afraid that the truth will come out. Banning of books is only part of the story.” Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes: Freedom of the press and other media; freedom to receive or impart information or ideas; freedom of artistic creativity; and academic freedom and the freedom of scientific research. Look at China and how it is gagging freedom of expression. Blocking Google to its people is a glaring example. Google's launch of a self-censoring Chinese search engine is the latest in a string of examples of global Internet companies caving in to pressure from the Chinese government. The service curtails the rights of Chinese Internet users to the freedom of expression and freedom of information enjoyed in other countries. Last year, Microsoft launched a portal in China that blocks use of words such as 'freedom' in blog text. The company recently closed down the blog of Zhao Jing, who used the blog name Michael An Ti, after he supported a strike against the politically-motivated sacking of an editor at the Beijing News. Yahoo has admitted revealing email account details of the journalist Shi Tao to the Chinese authorities, who was peacefully exercising his right to impart information, a move that contributed to his prosecution and sentencing to 10 years in prison. Look at America’s history of protecting the freedom of expression and democracy: During close to 200 years, the United States expelled or mostly exterminated the indigenous population, that’s many millions of people, conquered half of Mexico, carried out depredations all over the region, Caribbean and Central America, sometimes beyond, conquered Hawaii and the Philippines, killing several 100,000 Filipinos in the process. Since the Second World War, it has extended its reach around the world in ways. But it was always killing someone else, the fighting was somewhere else, it was others who were getting slaughtered. Not in the US. Not the national territory. (courtsey Noam Chomsky). India does not believe in invasions in the name of installing “democracies”, “freedom of expression”, “liberty” and shallowed things like that. Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Phillipines, Haiti, Guatemala and the list goes on. Often, the US atrocities on the world nations grows bigger and bigger. Now for Europe: Its history is even more horrendous than the US. The US is an offshoot of Europe, basically. For hundreds of years, Europe has been casually slaughtering people all over the world. That’s how they conquered the world, not by handing out candy to babies. The main sport of Europe for hundreds of years was slaughtering one another. The only reason that it came to an end in 1945, was….it had nothing to do with Democracy or not making war with each other and other fashionable notions. It had to do with the fact that everyone understood that the next time they play the game it was going to be the end for the world. Because the Europeans, including us, had developed such massive weapons of destruction that that game just have to be over. (Again courtsey: Noam Chomsky). I totally disagree with you when you said “In India, the freedom of expression is severely curtailed. The government is deathly afraid that the truth will come out. Banning of books is only part of the story.” Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes: Freedom of the press and other media; freedom to receive or impart information or ideas; freedom of artistic creativity; and academic freedom and the freedom of scientific research. Look at China and how it is gagging freedom of expression. Blocking Google to its people is a glaring example. Google’s launch of a self-censoring Chinese search engine is the latest in a string of examples of global Internet companies caving in to pressure from the Chinese government. The service curtails the rights of Chinese Internet users to the freedom of expression and freedom of information enjoyed in other countries. Last year, Microsoft launched a portal in China that blocks use of words such as ‘freedom’ in blog text. The company recently closed down the blog of Zhao Jing, who used the blog name Michael An Ti, after he supported a strike against the politically-motivated sacking of an editor at the Beijing News. Yahoo has admitted revealing email account details of the journalist Shi Tao to the Chinese authorities, who was peacefully exercising his right to impart information, a move that contributed to his prosecution and sentencing to 10 years in prison.
Look at America’s history of protecting the freedom of expression and democracy: During close to 200 years, the United States expelled or mostly exterminated the indigenous population, that’s many millions of people, conquered half of Mexico, carried out depredations all over the region, Caribbean and Central America, sometimes beyond, conquered Hawaii and the Philippines, killing several 100,000 Filipinos in the process. Since the Second World War, it has extended its reach around the world in ways. But it was always killing someone else, the fighting was somewhere else, it was others who were getting slaughtered. Not in the US. Not the national territory. (courtsey Noam Chomsky). India does not believe in invasions in the name of installing “democracies”, “freedom of expression”, “liberty” and shallowed things like that. Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Phillipines, Haiti, Guatemala and the list goes on. Often, the US atrocities on the world nations grows bigger and bigger.
Now for Europe: Its history is even more horrendous than the US. The US is an offshoot of Europe, basically. For hundreds of years, Europe has been casually slaughtering people all over the world. That’s how they conquered the world, not by handing out candy to babies. The main sport of Europe for hundreds of years was slaughtering one another. The only reason that it came to an end in 1945, was….it had nothing to do with Democracy or not making war with each other and other fashionable notions. It had to do with the fact that everyone understood that the next time they play the game it was going to be the end for the world. Because the Europeans, including us, had developed such massive weapons of destruction that that game just have to be over. (Again courtsey: Noam Chomsky).

]]> By: Pranav http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5833 Pranav Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:16:42 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5833 <i>“Yes, but, shouldn’t there be some limits on what could be expressed?” they may ask. My response is, “Who defines those limits?” </i> Sense and Sensibility. “Yes, but, shouldn’t there be some limits on what could be expressed?” they may ask. My response is, “Who defines those limits?”

Sense and Sensibility.

]]> By: Rajan’s Rambling » Blog Archive » Ideas do matter http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5784 Rajan’s Rambling » Blog Archive » Ideas do matter Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:47:46 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5784 [...] e ideas may not have a complete understanding of the economics of an idea . Atanu dey has a brilliant post in which he discusses the [...] [...] e ideas may not have a complete understanding of the economics of an idea . Atanu dey has a brilliant post in which he discusses the [...]

]]> By: Anubhav http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5779 Anubhav Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:51:45 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5779 I agree with what you have said. However, not all new ideas are good. <i> Those who are against new ideas are the ones who are afraid that their own ideas are worthless. New ideas, especially those that fundamentally restructure human society, pose the greatest threat to those who have little trust in themselves. One test of a potentially good new idea is to note whether it is opposed by those in power </i> So, this test for "goodness" of an idea is not sufficient. For e.g. if a new secret brotherhood propagates the idea that every white/black man above the age of 60 should be killed, then those in power would definitely oppose it. And obviously, it does not make the idea a good one... Otherwise, you have raised a very logical argument and I agree.. I agree with what you have said. However, not all new ideas are good.
Those who are against new ideas are the ones who are afraid that their own ideas are worthless. New ideas, especially those that fundamentally restructure human society, pose the greatest threat to those who have little trust in themselves. One test of a potentially good new idea is to note whether it is opposed by those in power So, this test for “goodness” of an idea is not sufficient. For e.g. if a new secret brotherhood propagates the idea that every white/black man above the age of 60 should be killed, then those in power would definitely oppose it. And obviously, it does not make the idea a good one…

Otherwise, you have raised a very logical argument and I agree..

]]> By: Ambar http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5775 Ambar Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:28:50 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5775 Brilliant. Adding to the previous comment, those who don't value this freedom, don't deserve it anyway. Brilliant.

Adding to the previous comment, those who don’t value this freedom, don’t deserve it anyway.

]]> By: sarat http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5769 sarat Thu, 23 Feb 2006 05:20:00 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5769 completely agree with you. but i dont think people at large will ever learn to value this freedom. most people would rather continue with their religion of fear....where any dissent is blasphemy. irreverence is a healthy attitude but few people have it. completely agree with you. but i dont think people at large will ever learn to value this freedom. most people would rather continue with their religion of fear….where any dissent is blasphemy.
irreverence is a healthy attitude but few people have it.

]]> By: Krishna http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5768 Krishna Thu, 23 Feb 2006 05:15:46 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5768 Sorry for the presumption. But here is what I wrote on the topic of <a href="http://krishna23.blogspot.com/2006/02/limits-to-freedom-of-expression.html" rel="nofollow">limits to freedom of expression</a>. Sorry for the presumption. But here is what I wrote on the topic of limits to freedom of expression.

]]> By: Krishna http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5767 Krishna Thu, 23 Feb 2006 05:06:38 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5767 Great Post. Agree with you completely. Amit, naturally one needs to put constraints on this or any other freedom: <b>only those constraints which enable everyone to exercise their freedom</b>. I can not impede your freedom in exercising my freedom. I think any other constraint is uncalled for. (And in a manner of speaking they are not constraints, because they are logically necessitated by the concept of a freedom.) I think <a href="http://www.economist.com/opinion/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=5494602" rel="nofollow">this article in the Economist</a> puts it very well: <blockquote>...the fewer constraints that are placed on free speech the better. Limits designed to protect people (from libel and murder, for example) are easier to justify than those that aim in some way to control thinking (such as laws on blasphemy, obscenity and Holocaust-denial).</blockquote> Great Post. Agree with you completely.

Amit, naturally one needs to put constraints on this or any other freedom: only those constraints which enable everyone to exercise their freedom. I can not impede your freedom in exercising my freedom. I think any other constraint is uncalled for. (And in a manner of speaking they are not constraints, because they are logically necessitated by the concept of a freedom.)

I think this article in the Economist puts it very well:

…the fewer constraints that are placed on free speech the better. Limits designed to protect people (from libel and murder, for example) are easier to justify than those that aim in some way to control thinking (such as laws on blasphemy, obscenity and Holocaust-denial).

]]> By: Parvati http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5764 Parvati Thu, 23 Feb 2006 03:19:15 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5764 What a beautiful post! - contentwise, writing-stylewise. Enjoyed it immensely. And agree with what it says too. What a beautiful post! – contentwise, writing-stylewise. Enjoyed it immensely. And agree with what it says too.

]]> By: Amit Kulkarni http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5763 Amit Kulkarni Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:20:25 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5763 While I agree with the majority of your post, I beg to differ with sweeping statements like these... <i>India’s development is dependent on absolute freedom of expression.</i> Not so, nobody I repeat nobody can give absolute freedom of expression and survive as a society. Society equates to some form of constraints. <i>In India, the freedom of expression is severely curtailed.</i> So it is everywhere. Not just India. Can you prove that it is completely (and practically speaking) open in any country in the world? <i>Thus there should not be any limits placed on the freedom of expression for the very practical reason that that freedom has an instrumental role in promoting the development of an economy.</i> Again, you are confusing freedom of expression with wide exposure of your ideas. You can get wide exposure of your ideas, if the timing is right. You can substitute India with any other country and it won't sound out of place. While I agree with the majority of your post, I beg to differ with sweeping statements like these…

India’s development is dependent on absolute freedom of expression.

Not so, nobody I repeat nobody can give absolute freedom of expression and survive as a society. Society equates to some form of constraints.

In India, the freedom of expression is severely curtailed.

So it is everywhere. Not just India. Can you prove that it is completely (and practically speaking) open in any country in the world?

Thus there should not be any limits placed on the freedom of expression for the very practical reason that that freedom has an instrumental role in promoting the development of an economy.

Again, you are confusing freedom of expression with wide exposure of your ideas. You can get wide exposure of your ideas, if the timing is right. You can substitute India with any other country and it won’t sound out of place.

]]> By: DesiPundit » All it takes is an idea http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5759 DesiPundit » All it takes is an idea Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:48:31 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5759 [...] bit the emergence of ideas however good the ideas may be to general welfare. Atanu pens a classic essay on why ideas matter. Malls and cell phones asi [...] [...] bit the emergence of ideas however good the ideas may be to general welfare. Atanu pens a classic essay on why ideas matter. Malls and cell phones asi [...]

]]> By: anonymous http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/comment-page-1/#comment-5757 anonymous Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:35:56 +0000 http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/02/23/thoughts-on-freedom-of-expression/#comment-5757 What a great article!!! I will try and publicize this, if nothing else What a great article!!! I will try and publicize this, if nothing else

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