20 Comments to ‘ [...]

You are dead right on the “vicious circle”.
>>” It is a vicious circle: the government is bad because the people from which the government is drawn are ignorant and stupid. And given a bad government, there is no way that the people will find a way out of their ignorance and stupidity.”

Good to see a post from you. Looks like you did some strong thinking while suffering with your fever.

First, let me add to the plethora of comments that your thinking is important. I personally can vouch for that. In the one year I spent working with you and the continued friendship I found in you has changed me forever. It will continue to do so in my life. I treasure your connection.

I was talking to a friend of mine today and he said how here in Australia we are not better off then before and was comparing to Greece where it would be ok to finish work at 1, have some lunch, sleep and come back in the evening to talk and think with people.

Your blog is a way for that to happen. You are providing an opportunity for a lot of young people to think, to discuss, to converse.

It is an important exercise as you would accept. Thinking is important.

Can we link this blog and its thinkers to any specfic event? No.

Can we link any change to thinking? Yes.

Your blog and its followers will make a difference. Its just that it is not easy to quantify it. So cheer up and continue blogging.

We all do our small part in the world. You are doing yours.

Deeshaa.org is an important part of this “contribution”.

Cheers,
Suhit

I think,

1. It is a well established fact that terrorist training camps operate in Pakistan. There was an amazing BBC documentary that I saw on BBC1 when I was in the UK. I’ll try to find the link and share here. I have also read some reports that suggest that India knows the exact nature and location of such camps in Pakistan. Dictator Mush is frank in admitting the state’s moral support for their cause.

2. It is a well known fact that Dictator Mush was the architect of the Kargil incursion by militants.

3. Democracy is suppressed in Pakistan. Take the number of extensions (unconstitutional) Dictator Mush has taken. The current one will run out only in 2007. Merge this with another fact – India has had wars with Pakistan only when Pakistan was ruled under a dictatorship.

4. 9/11 forced a volte-face in Pakistan’s attitude, changing its stance to now appearing to be fighting against global terror. Thats an oxymoron-ic attitude bigger than any that the world has faced in a long time.

Now to think of India’s policy during this period, it does appear to be extremely naive. Despite all the above facts, which are clear and concise and well known throughout teh Indian establishment, we choose to do charity.

However, the point that you discuss Atanu, is not entirely black or white. There is the question of the intangible benefit in terms of people to people contact, not ignoring the fact that many relatives, or friends, are shared across the border (including my own, my family migrated at the time of partition).

Charity cannot be run like a cold-hearted business enterprise, weighing the pros and cons. Charity stems from emotional roots and the Indian culture historically, has been a strong supporter of that fact.

What Singh is doing, is merely succumbing to this cultural trait. Naive it may seem, but if it works, the benefits might be immense.

However, my position on this, is that we should not have given direct aid, only access to international aid agencies, who would be keen on routing their supplies through the Indian side.

It is not easy milk to churn, this.

The liberated person is free from desires everywhere. Such a one neither blames, praises, rejoices, is disappointed, gives nor takes. 17.13

The liberated person is self-possessed in all circumstances and free from the idea of “done” and “still to do.” Such a one is the same wherever and whenever, without greed. Such a one does not dwell on what has been done or has not been done. 18.98

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1051129/asp/foreign/story_5535902.asp

The first step to resolution is discussion and we seem to be doing that. What can we do to take these ideals and transform it into action? If we stir up discussion and awareness, then we have a moral obligation to see it through to the end.

Keep at it, do what you do…and when time and opportunity intersect, things will start happening.

Ram

the argument that donating pakistan for earth-quake relief is equivalent to funding their terrorist groups is also very irrational. whatever pakistan may use the donating money for, they have to use some money for relief operations

well you yourself suspect that only some of the money will be used for that activity. What about the rest?
But that is not the issue many of us have with helping pakistani’s out.
The relationship with pakistan is at best going to be that of a nuisance with sporadic shelling to an all out war.
So why the f\/(k should my government aid them in any way.
If BJP,RSS or shivsena had any balls they should have made this a bigger issue.

Jokes aside, you must watch one of those Tamil movies , where the Hero takes on decadent society by butchering all and sundry. It provides you some comic relief!!

Regards,
Praveen

The argument against India delivering aid to Pakistan Excerpts from the third part of Atanu Dey’s case against the Indian government’s decision to [...]

Aditya

Atanu’s reponse: That appears to be the case, doesn’t it? I have not seen anyone refute it. After all, it is a simple proposition that money is fungible and giving money to Pakistan is not in India’s best interests.

The problem with our current incentive structure is that while the economy loses, the people in power gain personally from it. Gain a lot, indeed.

Looking forward to more posts on re-aligning on the economy.

Simply brilliant.I completely agree.

An aid package is perhaps the simplest of financial interchanges between countries for me to absorb: a hand-out with no strings attached. I see your fungible point very clearly. But where does one draw the line when allowing trade with an ‘enemy’ state?

Don’t just leave the blogging yet. I too am cynical about the blogs making any tangible difference. Partly because of the audience we tend to attract and partly because the powers that be are totally immune to any valuable feedback or suggestions. The worst off is the priveleged beareucracy which feeds on likes termites on dead wood. I really wonder whether we really have “intelligent” politicians.Well, till the time it happens, let’s go on a roll and trash them!

As for the “gift” to Pakistan, I believe that we are playing to the gallery and indulging in politics of appeasement. F*** the “seculars”.

In the hindsight and off the tangent a bit. Do you remember how much “controversy” was raised by Murli Manohar Joshi’s idea to “reduce fees” in IIM’s. The CII, NASSCOM, ASSOCHAM, “leaders”, “intellegentsia”, “seculars” were “aghast at the suggestion”. Now Arjun Singh is talking of RESERVATIONS for the “minorties”- no WORD of it anywhere. No mention in the editorials, no mention in news channels and worse off still, the ones who are affected, the management students from IIM’s- no word from them.

Intelligence indeed. Surely, if we want to create a space and stimulate debate, we have an uphill task to make the generation unlearn their follies. By virtue of oppurtune circumstances, this responsibility has landed on you! Don’t loose hope as yet!

Atanu’s response: Yes, Pakistan did defer the purchase of F16s. By a few days. The first two F16s will arrive in Pakistan this week.

That was quite a rant, you were definitely on a roll. But jokes aside, your pain is understandable and insights like that are not easy when you know that the system is so dense. But despite the obtuseness of the majority, please continue to write and inspire people like us, whom you give so much food for thought. It might provide sufficient insight to galvanize some future generation into action.

Yes, I agree that the US is ethically bankrupt, Pakistan is blatantly parasitic and India pathetically stupid. In a larger perspective, we as a species are potentially self-destructive and stupid not to make the best of what we have. That is our collective karma.

Cheers

Jyoti

Think about where our soceity was in the 18th century. We have banned Sati, untouchability etc. We have come a long way through history. We have moved from a land of snake charmers to a land of clercs.

Nothing lasts forever – be it glory or shame; poverty or richness. Somehow everything is destroyed.

It may take some time – it might not even happen within our lifetimes. But please don’t give up…