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	<title>Comments on: India, the World&#8217;s Largest Kleptocracy</title>
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	<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/</link>
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		<title>By: Corruption and Economic Growth &#171; Econ171: Development Economics</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-145862</link>
		<dc:creator>Corruption and Economic Growth &#171; Econ171: Development Economics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 06:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-145862</guid>
		<description>[...] my blog: India, the World&#8217;s Largest Kleptocracy (Nov 2004) &#8212;  India is rated as one of the most corrupt countries with a “corruption [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my blog: India, the World&#8217;s Largest Kleptocracy (Nov 2004) &#8212;  India is rated as one of the most corrupt countries with a “corruption [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-50262</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-50262</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, the politicians who will have to pass the law in question are the very ones who are the most corrupt.  Little chance they will pass a law to hang themselves, but they will certainly pass laws to imprison milkmen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, the politicians who will have to pass the law in question are the very ones who are the most corrupt.  Little chance they will pass a law to hang themselves, but they will certainly pass laws to imprison milkmen</p>
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		<title>By: poorna</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-779</link>
		<dc:creator>poorna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 May 2005 11:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-779</guid>
		<description>atanu,

agree with your concept of death penalty for the wrong doers. but tell me, whos going to clear the cases. with already 0.3 million cases in the courts and rotting, estimates has it that it will take another 35 years to clear all of them off.

i agree corruption is the biggest hindrance in the progress of india, but the bigger malice is the judiciary which has not been able to live upto its image of a justice providing institution. as long as a moral institution of a land doesnt stand the test, the morality of the ppl is gravely in danger. currently we are doing a balancing act, trying to define a morality by our own means in the absence of a higher institution.

a good man who doesnt do good is dangerous to the society than a bad guy who does the harm!

what say?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>atanu,</p>
<p>agree with your concept of death penalty for the wrong doers. but tell me, whos going to clear the cases. with already 0.3 million cases in the courts and rotting, estimates has it that it will take another 35 years to clear all of them off.</p>
<p>i agree corruption is the biggest hindrance in the progress of india, but the bigger malice is the judiciary which has not been able to live upto its image of a justice providing institution. as long as a moral institution of a land doesnt stand the test, the morality of the ppl is gravely in danger. currently we are doing a balancing act, trying to define a morality by our own means in the absence of a higher institution.</p>
<p>a good man who doesnt do good is dangerous to the society than a bad guy who does the harm!</p>
<p>what say?</p>
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		<title>By: Sudhar</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>Sudhar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-481</guid>
		<description>Atanu,

I agree India fits the exact definition of Kleptocracy.

I had this question pricking me for sometime and having religiously read your blogs while, you are perhaps a right person to throw it to. I am probably the dumbest person you could ever meet when it comes to economics so if this question sounds outrageously stupid, I deserve it.

Assuming corruption is given in the context of India, all the money, even when they are in the hands of corrupt, should go back into the society in some form isnt it? As long as the money is not just stoved in as cash in lockers or set outside of india, its got to be there somewhere within India doing something? [could be in bank which lends it, could be in invested properties which creates jobs, could be in religious institutions which inturn directly/indirectly give it back to society]. My short stupid question is, whether it is in the hands of one corrupt official or 10 loyal private distributors, that moneys got to be doing something isnt it?

Even if it vaguely sounds like I dont care about the corrupt system, dont get me wrong. I just wanted understand in detail about this that you briefly eluded to. [economic waste, low quality etc]

I wish I was next to you lending a hand in your endeavors.
-Sudhar</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atanu,</p>
<p>I agree India fits the exact definition of Kleptocracy.</p>
<p>I had this question pricking me for sometime and having religiously read your blogs while, you are perhaps a right person to throw it to. I am probably the dumbest person you could ever meet when it comes to economics so if this question sounds outrageously stupid, I deserve it.</p>
<p>Assuming corruption is given in the context of India, all the money, even when they are in the hands of corrupt, should go back into the society in some form isnt it? As long as the money is not just stoved in as cash in lockers or set outside of india, its got to be there somewhere within India doing something? [could be in bank which lends it, could be in invested properties which creates jobs, could be in religious institutions which inturn directly/indirectly give it back to society]. My short stupid question is, whether it is in the hands of one corrupt official or 10 loyal private distributors, that moneys got to be doing something isnt it?</p>
<p>Even if it vaguely sounds like I dont care about the corrupt system, dont get me wrong. I just wanted understand in detail about this that you briefly eluded to. [economic waste, low quality etc]</p>
<p>I wish I was next to you lending a hand in your endeavors.<br />
-Sudhar</p>
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		<title>By: Prashant</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-482</link>
		<dc:creator>Prashant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-482</guid>
		<description>Atanu,

You aren&#039;t serious about the death penalty idea right?

Facts about the death penalty and deterrance show the exact opposite of what you proposed would happen. 

* &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&amp;did=167#STATES%20WITH%20THE%20DEATH%20PENALTY%20V.%20STATES%20WITHOUT&quot;&gt;States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates&lt;/a&gt;
* &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&amp;did=167#STUDIES&quot;&gt;Homicide Rates Fall in Canada After Abolition of Death Penalty &lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atanu,</p>
<p>You aren&#8217;t serious about the death penalty idea right?</p>
<p>Facts about the death penalty and deterrance show the exact opposite of what you proposed would happen. </p>
<p>* <a href="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&#038;did=167#STATES%20WITH%20THE%20DEATH%20PENALTY%20V.%20STATES%20WITHOUT">States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates</a><br />
* <a href="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&#038;did=167#STUDIES">Homicide Rates Fall in Canada After Abolition of Death Penalty </a></p>
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		<title>By: uspeed</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-483</link>
		<dc:creator>uspeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-483</guid>
		<description>doesnt China have the death penalty for corruption ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>doesnt China have the death penalty for corruption ?</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Lam</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-484</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Lam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-484</guid>
		<description>Re. Sudhir&#039;s comments: I&#039;m no economist either but here is my take. If there were no kickbacks, money gets distributed in a wider and more incremental fashion. Under meritocratic pay-off, more people tend to make better distributed wealth, based on their hard work. Money distributed this way is likely to be spent more &quot;normally&quot; and usefully to the economy -- for example the recepient building a house, upgrading their material conveniences etc. Also, by experiencing the rewards of hard work through such meritorious fashion, a good example is set for observers and future generations -- achieving wealth generation the right royal way, where everyone benefits. On the other hand, corruption results in a more spiky wealth distribution graph, demoralizing the honest and hard working work-force, and encouraging abnormal spending among the immoral wealthy.  Tucked away excesses, which do not help the native economy include ski-trips in the Alps and other such Western European jaunts; these basically help economies other than the country from which the money was looted. Such has been the pathetic story of sub-Saharan Africa. The Swiss economy has been flush with capital that represents blood money and other misappropriated sweat equity from the poorest of nations. There is scant economic benefit to the country being pillaged and exploited.

Re. Prashant&#039;s comments, the inverse correlation between homicide and the death penalty has nothing to do with the fear of ultimate punishment (death) on financial corruption. It allows a civil crime to be treated on par with the worst criminal offense. A nation cannot send a stronger signal. I agree with Atanu: common sense dictates that setting appropriate examples, even if just a handfull, will make a corrupt lowlife think twice. 

Is there any article providing a decent estimate of wealth infusion into western banks and economies from corrupt individuals in poor countries?

- Stan Lam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re. Sudhir&#8217;s comments: I&#8217;m no economist either but here is my take. If there were no kickbacks, money gets distributed in a wider and more incremental fashion. Under meritocratic pay-off, more people tend to make better distributed wealth, based on their hard work. Money distributed this way is likely to be spent more &#8220;normally&#8221; and usefully to the economy &#8212; for example the recepient building a house, upgrading their material conveniences etc. Also, by experiencing the rewards of hard work through such meritorious fashion, a good example is set for observers and future generations &#8212; achieving wealth generation the right royal way, where everyone benefits. On the other hand, corruption results in a more spiky wealth distribution graph, demoralizing the honest and hard working work-force, and encouraging abnormal spending among the immoral wealthy.  Tucked away excesses, which do not help the native economy include ski-trips in the Alps and other such Western European jaunts; these basically help economies other than the country from which the money was looted. Such has been the pathetic story of sub-Saharan Africa. The Swiss economy has been flush with capital that represents blood money and other misappropriated sweat equity from the poorest of nations. There is scant economic benefit to the country being pillaged and exploited.</p>
<p>Re. Prashant&#8217;s comments, the inverse correlation between homicide and the death penalty has nothing to do with the fear of ultimate punishment (death) on financial corruption. It allows a civil crime to be treated on par with the worst criminal offense. A nation cannot send a stronger signal. I agree with Atanu: common sense dictates that setting appropriate examples, even if just a handfull, will make a corrupt lowlife think twice. </p>
<p>Is there any article providing a decent estimate of wealth infusion into western banks and economies from corrupt individuals in poor countries?</p>
<p>- Stan Lam</p>
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		<title>By: Atanu Dey</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-485</link>
		<dc:creator>Atanu Dey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-485</guid>
		<description>Prashant, I am serious about imposing the death penalty on those who steal very large amounts because the harm they inflict on society amounts to multiple murders. It is a white-collar criminal but the effect of their crime condemn many to an early death. Regarding your point about death penalty and homicide, Stan has already addressed it. I will elaborate later. 

Stan, thanks for your detailed comments. Sudhar, will add to Stan&#039;s comments. Uspeed, yes, I do believe that the Chinese take a more reasonable view of things and hang the bastards that steal mega-bucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prashant, I am serious about imposing the death penalty on those who steal very large amounts because the harm they inflict on society amounts to multiple murders. It is a white-collar criminal but the effect of their crime condemn many to an early death. Regarding your point about death penalty and homicide, Stan has already addressed it. I will elaborate later. </p>
<p>Stan, thanks for your detailed comments. Sudhar, will add to Stan&#8217;s comments. Uspeed, yes, I do believe that the Chinese take a more reasonable view of things and hang the bastards that steal mega-bucks.</p>
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		<title>By: SV</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-486</link>
		<dc:creator>SV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-486</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with your solution. Deatn penalty it should be!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with your solution. Deatn penalty it should be!!</p>
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		<title>By: Pradeep</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/11/23/india-the-worlds-largest-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-487</link>
		<dc:creator>Pradeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/11/23/215#comment-487</guid>
		<description>Hi Atanu,

The subjects sounds very familiar, so is the explanation of the logistics behind bribery. The solution is definitely an extreme, fit for China. 

Bribery is a world phenomena, the degree varies. I believe its capped in developed world because citizens are informed enough to challenge it. We will get there some time, hope sooner. Ages back, I have traveled a lot between Bihar and Kerala by Train, days before we had automated reservation, even as a kid I could make out the $ required to get a seat/berth. Not just the $, itâ€™s the peoples respect for the ticket collector. One end he is man of power, at the other end is a regular govt. employee doing his service. Same analogy can be portrait about the Chief Engg., politicians, IAS officer, â€¦

The solution is to let citizens know what to do, when cornered by corrupts. Remember over a decade back tele-serial â€œRajaniâ€, that was great. With the internet media, its matter of time to know enough to clamp down on the corrupts. â€œThelkaâ€ was good example.

- Pradeep

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Atanu,</p>
<p>The subjects sounds very familiar, so is the explanation of the logistics behind bribery. The solution is definitely an extreme, fit for China. </p>
<p>Bribery is a world phenomena, the degree varies. I believe its capped in developed world because citizens are informed enough to challenge it. We will get there some time, hope sooner. Ages back, I have traveled a lot between Bihar and Kerala by Train, days before we had automated reservation, even as a kid I could make out the $ required to get a seat/berth. Not just the $, itâ€™s the peoples respect for the ticket collector. One end he is man of power, at the other end is a regular govt. employee doing his service. Same analogy can be portrait about the Chief Engg., politicians, IAS officer, â€¦</p>
<p>The solution is to let citizens know what to do, when cornered by corrupts. Remember over a decade back tele-serial â€œRajaniâ€, that was great. With the internet media, its matter of time to know enough to clamp down on the corrupts. â€œThelkaâ€ was good example.</p>
<p>- Pradeep</p>
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