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	<title>Comments on: On Gandhian Self-sufficiency</title>
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		<title>By: Rajesh</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-20219</link>
		<dc:creator>Rajesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 06:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-20219</guid>
		<description>He was not atleast an idle talker building theories in the air all the times. To understand this man I would only suggest you do to do something real productive to the society. Start a small reform association and try to build it that is when you&#039;ll understand him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He was not atleast an idle talker building theories in the air all the times. To understand this man I would only suggest you do to do something real productive to the society. Start a small reform association and try to build it that is when you&#8217;ll understand him.</p>
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		<title>By: The Chronicles of a Happy Life &#187; A post from Bangalore&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-5667</link>
		<dc:creator>The Chronicles of a Happy Life &#187; A post from Bangalore&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-5667</guid>
		<description>[...]  away in minutes. Its the ultimate testament to the power of diversity&#8230;&#8221; Links On Gandhian self sufficiency  Yet another site relating to startups The Harvard B [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  away in minutes. Its the ultimate testament to the power of diversity&#8230;&#8221; Links On Gandhian self sufficiency  Yet another site relating to startups The Harvard B [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shiboo</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-4665</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiboo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>None among us can escape being the product of our times. Mahatma Gandhi and Pandit Nehru were a product of their times as we are of ours. In hindsight (which is always 20/20) it is easy to blame them for India&#039;s weaknesses today. 

I am not sure if Gandhiji thought about it in this way or not, but when you have a large illiterate, superstitious mass of people who have been rendered humiliated and emasculated by a ruthless, exploitative foreign power, what recourse do you have in order to inspire your countrymen other than  championing the exact opposite by being and advocating that everyone else be compassionate, inclusive and proudly self-sufficient?

I too believe that a creed of  compassion, inclusiveness and self-sufficiency carried to extreme can lead to adverse consequences as it has done for India, but that is not the fault of all the great men who led us to independence. Instead, it is the fault of those who followed them after independence and refused to open their collective mind to the possibility that the ideas (and the leaders )that were best for achieving independence may not be the best for achieving progress; or to the possibility that true inclusiveness requires acceptance of one&#039;s limits, that true compassion requires a resolute commitment to one&#039;s security and that for most nations true self-sufficiency only comes through trade and inter-dependency. 

Nevertheless, in order to have any chance succeeding as a nation we have mature psychologically as a people. One of the requirements of psychological maturity is that we stop seeing all things in black and white; we have to begin to accept that two seemingly contradictory things are not always so and can be believed at the same time without going insane. 

Being human, most visionary thinkers and leaders in history have demonstrated the flaw of being too slow to realize the ideas that they advocate for a particular set of circumstances may not be the best ideas for completely different goals.For all of us it should be possible to admire Mahatma Gandhi and Pandit Nehru as great men and awesome leaders of India&#039;s struggle for freedom and to simultaneously believe that they had many ideas that were harmful to Independent India&#039;s quest for rapid economic and political progress.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None among us can escape being the product of our times. Mahatma Gandhi and Pandit Nehru were a product of their times as we are of ours. In hindsight (which is always 20/20) it is easy to blame them for India&#8217;s weaknesses today. </p>
<p>I am not sure if Gandhiji thought about it in this way or not, but when you have a large illiterate, superstitious mass of people who have been rendered humiliated and emasculated by a ruthless, exploitative foreign power, what recourse do you have in order to inspire your countrymen other than  championing the exact opposite by being and advocating that everyone else be compassionate, inclusive and proudly self-sufficient?</p>
<p>I too believe that a creed of  compassion, inclusiveness and self-sufficiency carried to extreme can lead to adverse consequences as it has done for India, but that is not the fault of all the great men who led us to independence. Instead, it is the fault of those who followed them after independence and refused to open their collective mind to the possibility that the ideas (and the leaders )that were best for achieving independence may not be the best for achieving progress; or to the possibility that true inclusiveness requires acceptance of one&#8217;s limits, that true compassion requires a resolute commitment to one&#8217;s security and that for most nations true self-sufficiency only comes through trade and inter-dependency. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, in order to have any chance succeeding as a nation we have mature psychologically as a people. One of the requirements of psychological maturity is that we stop seeing all things in black and white; we have to begin to accept that two seemingly contradictory things are not always so and can be believed at the same time without going insane. </p>
<p>Being human, most visionary thinkers and leaders in history have demonstrated the flaw of being too slow to realize the ideas that they advocate for a particular set of circumstances may not be the best ideas for completely different goals.For all of us it should be possible to admire Mahatma Gandhi and Pandit Nehru as great men and awesome leaders of India&#8217;s struggle for freedom and to simultaneously believe that they had many ideas that were harmful to Independent India&#8217;s quest for rapid economic and political progress.</p>
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		<title>By: Narendra Chandratrey</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-4659</link>
		<dc:creator>Narendra Chandratrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-4659</guid>
		<description>Though I agree that Gandhi&#039;s satyagraha was not a effective tool against the British,I disagree with your point on self-sufficiency.

Indian economy was shock-proofed by the practice of self-sufficiency  at the village level.What happens in other parts of the world does not affect a village economy.

Now instead of talking about villages,lets talk about energy in urban areas.I come from maharashtra where the energy crisis is deepening day by day.

       To counter this we have adopted the path of self-sufficiency by taking to Solar products.Now can you explain whether this is right or wrong.

If we heed to your advise and depend on MSEB for power,we would end up spending the evenings in darkness and having cold water for an early morning bath(The gas cylinders have lately gone up in price)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I agree that Gandhi&#8217;s satyagraha was not a effective tool against the British,I disagree with your point on self-sufficiency.</p>
<p>Indian economy was shock-proofed by the practice of self-sufficiency  at the village level.What happens in other parts of the world does not affect a village economy.</p>
<p>Now instead of talking about villages,lets talk about energy in urban areas.I come from maharashtra where the energy crisis is deepening day by day.</p>
<p>       To counter this we have adopted the path of self-sufficiency by taking to Solar products.Now can you explain whether this is right or wrong.</p>
<p>If we heed to your advise and depend on MSEB for power,we would end up spending the evenings in darkness and having cold water for an early morning bath(The gas cylinders have lately gone up in price)</p>
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		<title>By: Abhishek</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-4657</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhishek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-4657</guid>
		<description>Gandhi was a politician first and then anything else.Why do we refuse to acknowledge this identity? Until and unless we refuse to honour our true heros and not the &quot;father of the nation&quot; we are doing a gross injustice to all of them.

He didnt have enough support for his policies in Congress; his real ascent was after the leaders like Lala Lajpat Rai and the &quot;extremists&quot; went away from Congress. Incidentally, it was only after around 1915- that alternative political parties came in to prominence. Prior to that, Congress was reduced to &quot;firmans&quot; or entreaties to British for their &quot;sense of fair play&quot;. 

Would anyone explain the Khilafat movement, the charkha,the support for the WW1 and nearly for WW2 and not stalling RajGuru&#039;s and Bhagat Singh&#039;s trial?

No sirre; the history speaks otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gandhi was a politician first and then anything else.Why do we refuse to acknowledge this identity? Until and unless we refuse to honour our true heros and not the &#8220;father of the nation&#8221; we are doing a gross injustice to all of them.</p>
<p>He didnt have enough support for his policies in Congress; his real ascent was after the leaders like Lala Lajpat Rai and the &#8220;extremists&#8221; went away from Congress. Incidentally, it was only after around 1915- that alternative political parties came in to prominence. Prior to that, Congress was reduced to &#8220;firmans&#8221; or entreaties to British for their &#8220;sense of fair play&#8221;. </p>
<p>Would anyone explain the Khilafat movement, the charkha,the support for the WW1 and nearly for WW2 and not stalling RajGuru&#8217;s and Bhagat Singh&#8217;s trial?</p>
<p>No sirre; the history speaks otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Atanu Dey on India&#8217;s Development  &#187; On Unwashed Masses and Idol-worshipping</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-4652</link>
		<dc:creator>Atanu Dey on India&#8217;s Development  &#187; On Unwashed Masses and Idol-worshipping</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-4652</guid>
		<description>[...] ce on self-sufficiency is contrary to the basic nature of the universe. Last year, I wrote about Gandhian self-sufficiency and why I oppose it. Of course, I got some hate-m [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ce on self-sufficiency is contrary to the basic nature of the universe. Last year, I wrote about Gandhian self-sufficiency and why I oppose it. Of course, I got some hate-m [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Atanu Dey on India&#8217;s Development  &#187; Ending Two Years</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-3427</link>
		<dc:creator>Atanu Dey on India&#8217;s Development  &#187; Ending Two Years</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2005 03:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-3427</guid>
		<description>[...] . It was, instead, a contrarian viewpoint. I picked on holy cows such as Jawaharlal Nehru, Mahatma Gandhi, the incompetent Indian governments, Mother &#8220;the Mer [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] . It was, instead, a contrarian viewpoint. I picked on holy cows such as Jawaharlal Nehru, Mahatma Gandhi, the incompetent Indian governments, Mother &#8220;the Mer [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Atanu Dey on India&#8217;s Development  &#187; Idol-worshipping gone haywire</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-3421</link>
		<dc:creator>Atanu Dey on India&#8217;s Development  &#187; Idol-worshipping gone haywire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-3421</guid>
		<description>[...] ome 	 	XML-Feed 	           	  		 	 		Previous post: &#171; On Gandhian Self-sufficiency 		Next post: Rural Economic Development and [...]</description>
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		<title>By: praveen</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator>praveen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-283</guid>
		<description>Many people found Gandhiji to be inconsistent because he used to change his mind quite often. That is because he was not rigid in his views. He was quite ready to change his mind if new evidence became available. He did not follow non-violence blindly; after all he supported the British in the second world war in return for independence. His emphasis on self-reliance must also be viewed from the perspective of the freedom struggle. The British were literally stealing raw materials to feed their growing industries and selling the finished goods in India. Self-reliance was a way of protesting against the British rule by hitting where it hurts them most. Fifty years ago the world was not as globalized as it is today. Iam sure Gandhiji would have seen the benefits of globalization. You are trying to judge what happened more than 50 years back by using todays standards; and moreover the comparison is pointless because 50 years back the objectives were different. What is unpardonable is that the people who came after Gandhiji were not wise enough to see the changing circumstances and tailor their actions accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many people found Gandhiji to be inconsistent because he used to change his mind quite often. That is because he was not rigid in his views. He was quite ready to change his mind if new evidence became available. He did not follow non-violence blindly; after all he supported the British in the second world war in return for independence. His emphasis on self-reliance must also be viewed from the perspective of the freedom struggle. The British were literally stealing raw materials to feed their growing industries and selling the finished goods in India. Self-reliance was a way of protesting against the British rule by hitting where it hurts them most. Fifty years ago the world was not as globalized as it is today. Iam sure Gandhiji would have seen the benefits of globalization. You are trying to judge what happened more than 50 years back by using todays standards; and moreover the comparison is pointless because 50 years back the objectives were different. What is unpardonable is that the people who came after Gandhiji were not wise enough to see the changing circumstances and tailor their actions accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-284</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20040712&amp;fname=Family+Planning%28F%29&amp;sid=1</description>
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		<title>By: Arun Anantharaman</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun Anantharaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To call Gandhi a terrible egotist and to say it was dressed up in saintly rhetoric is not to understand the man at all. It is quite a terrible thing to say. And Gandhi did not insist upon self-sufficiency at every level. He did not claim man is not interdependent. His intent was to  &quot;build the ethic of self-sufficiency and self-discipline in the individual&quot;, and no matter  what the world we live in, first best, second best or nth best, it is an ethic worth striving for. 

In any case, fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the ideal of local self-sufficiency, to the degree possible. E F Schumacher wrote a very good book on that &quot;Small is beautiful&quot;. I believe you have read it as well. 

The idea that the world is second best is not new. Clearly first best ideas are difficult to implement. Practicalities automatically ensure we choose workable solutions, rather than the &quot;theoretically best&quot; solutions. The fact that Gandhi choose techniques that fit in with the Indian ethos, and that those worked clearly indicates he was aware of the necessity of being practical. He didn&#039;t die fasting.

50 years later, it has become the national passtime to pull down Gandhi and Nehru for everything that is wrong with India. We really ought to move on. 

On an unrelated note, Kirthi Ramakrishnan in response to one of your earlier posts said 
&quot;&lt;i&gt;

While I don&#039;t disagree that population is a real issue, I prefer to concentrate on things which are practical and positive and have a reasanable chance of acceptance and success. Things like RISC, microfinance etc give hope and optimism while ideas like population credits and controls are restrictive, pessimistic, and scary. It is a path of high resistance and will not get traction when alternatives exist.&quot; &lt;/i&gt;

She/he has put it perfectly. Your ideas on population control and credits are indeed unfortunate. In a country like India, as much as we sorely need a national agenda for education, healthcare etc, change shall happen in small steps, in local communities. And in general, such changes are also more sustaining.  Catalysing such changes call for optimism and hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To call Gandhi a terrible egotist and to say it was dressed up in saintly rhetoric is not to understand the man at all. It is quite a terrible thing to say. And Gandhi did not insist upon self-sufficiency at every level. He did not claim man is not interdependent. His intent was to  &#8220;build the ethic of self-sufficiency and self-discipline in the individual&#8221;, and no matter  what the world we live in, first best, second best or nth best, it is an ethic worth striving for. </p>
<p>In any case, fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the ideal of local self-sufficiency, to the degree possible. E F Schumacher wrote a very good book on that &#8220;Small is beautiful&#8221;. I believe you have read it as well. </p>
<p>The idea that the world is second best is not new. Clearly first best ideas are difficult to implement. Practicalities automatically ensure we choose workable solutions, rather than the &#8220;theoretically best&#8221; solutions. The fact that Gandhi choose techniques that fit in with the Indian ethos, and that those worked clearly indicates he was aware of the necessity of being practical. He didn&#8217;t die fasting.</p>
<p>50 years later, it has become the national passtime to pull down Gandhi and Nehru for everything that is wrong with India. We really ought to move on. </p>
<p>On an unrelated note, Kirthi Ramakrishnan in response to one of your earlier posts said<br />
&#8220;<i></p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t disagree that population is a real issue, I prefer to concentrate on things which are practical and positive and have a reasanable chance of acceptance and success. Things like RISC, microfinance etc give hope and optimism while ideas like population credits and controls are restrictive, pessimistic, and scary. It is a path of high resistance and will not get traction when alternatives exist.&#8221; </i></p>
<p>She/he has put it perfectly. Your ideas on population control and credits are indeed unfortunate. In a country like India, as much as we sorely need a national agenda for education, healthcare etc, change shall happen in small steps, in local communities. And in general, such changes are also more sustaining.  Catalysing such changes call for optimism and hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Niket</title>
		<link>http://www.deeshaa.org/2004/07/03/on-gandhian-self-sufficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>Niket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://home.blogstreet.com/2004/07/03/156#comment-286</guid>
		<description>While I am not a Gandhian, and I believe a number of Gandhian ideas do not hold ground in the present day, I still respect the mahatma for what he was and what he did. I agree with Arun A., and I couldn&#039;t have put it half as well myself.

Yes, Gandhiji (perhaps the only person I don&#039;t mind adding a &quot;JI&quot; to) committed some mistakes; yes some of his fast unto death were very close to a blackmail; but I don&#039;t agree with him being called an egotist. I can&#039;t argue in favor of him coz I don&#039;t believe in his ideology, but that won&#039;t stop me from respecting Gandhiji. Every such article makes me respect the man even more.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I am not a Gandhian, and I believe a number of Gandhian ideas do not hold ground in the present day, I still respect the mahatma for what he was and what he did. I agree with Arun A., and I couldn&#8217;t have put it half as well myself.</p>
<p>Yes, Gandhiji (perhaps the only person I don&#8217;t mind adding a &#8220;JI&#8221; to) committed some mistakes; yes some of his fast unto death were very close to a blackmail; but I don&#8217;t agree with him being called an egotist. I can&#8217;t argue in favor of him coz I don&#8217;t believe in his ideology, but that won&#8217;t stop me from respecting Gandhiji. Every such article makes me respect the man even more.</p>
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